Best compact-midsize diesel cars available in US?

[Tornado Red]

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Pro's of owning a diesel:
* SLIGHTLY better gas mileage
* Reliability (of engine only)

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The diesel engine is what makes it a diesel car. And a diesel-engine model typically gets 30% better FUEL economy than a comparably-powered gas-engine model. 40+ mpg in my TDI vs 28-30 mpg or less in a 1.8T.

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Con's of owning a diesel:
* Diesel is more expensive than gas, and therefore you're only marginally saving $$$ at the pump.

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Diesel is more expensive in the fall and winter, cheaper than gas in the spring and summer. Diesel is 30-50 cents/gallon cheaper than regular unleaded here in SoCal.

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Diesel cars don't have much power (especially VW's)

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Diesel cars are cheap to upgrade for more power. Chips and bigger nozzles are widely available.

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Only new diesel cars are VW (which fall apart after a few years)

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Mine only has to last a few more years. I won't retire it when it gets 400k miles, but I might get another one for my daily driver.

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I know it's tempting to go diesel when you see the "50 MPG" claims. However, VW owners are VERY vocal about not getting that kind of gas mileage. Most are getting in the mid-to-high 30's. With the high price of diesel, they're paying the same (and sometimes more) as all the Japanese gasers getting low-to-mid 30's.

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A poll with over 300 respondents, a couple years ago, showed an average of about 45 mpg for TDIs with MT and 40 mpg for those with AT. 50 mpg is possible but unlikely except under extraordinary conditions. I've had two tanks over 50, out of 380+ tanks of fuel.

Currently fuel costs me about 7.5 cents per mile. What Japanese econobox would you have me drive that costs less for fuel? (And could still run all day at 100+ mph, in comfort, stopping only every 700 miles for more fuel?)

 

[1sttruck]

When I was fueling up my diesel pickup a lady pulled up and started fuleing her diesel Passat. She'd had it a couple of years, and said that she usually got around 50 mpg.

 

[Jim 5]

I wish diesel were not more expensive than gas in the US. I think it's part of the reason why they haven't really caught on, since when it comes to cars, diesels seem to be aimed at those interested in serious fuel economy. Consequently, there aren't that many diesel offerings in north america.

That kind of stings in Canada, where diesel fuel is usually at least 10% cheaper than low-grade gas. Here, diesels are currently a double-bonus from the fuel expense perspective, but there's not many of them to choose from....like the 1/2 diesel truck with a more modest 6 cylinder turbo diesel that can haul about the same as a 1/2 gasser, but that gets 25-30 MPG. Man, am I waiting for that one.

 

[1sttruck]

"Why do we, with less density of population ... a deindustrializing nation ..have issues with diesels ..while the rest of the planet ..does not?"

Perhaps it related to why US drivers demand automatics in almost all vehicles; a gasser and an automatic will last longer with bad driving and poor maintenance. Diesels are more economical and durable but are also more unforgiving of being lugged and of poor maintenance. Check out some of the other threads on VW diesels; the dealers don't even use the right oil. You gotta care, and you gotta have a clue.

 

[Gary Allan]

I think it's more to do with how it upsets the economy. We've constructed an economy that heavily revolves around personal transportation. I think diesels upset that massive structure that provides so much of a purpose to so many. It may be nothing more than the massive delivery/vending structure needed to accommodate a sizable chunk of the population with clean diesel fuel with the current and anticipated demands of the current commercial sectors.

 

[1sttruck]

When having the tranny fluid changed on one of the Taurii at a Ford dealer the mechanic asked what I did for a living, as he said that for 140k (or so miles at the time) the car was in very good shape. I said that I was a quality engineer and he acted surprised. He said that most white collar folk just ran the cars into the ground by not doing the maintenance.

 

[jmac]

In Europe if you don't have a selection of diesel engines in your car models lineup, you will make it as a car company there.
Over 50% of new vehicles sold there are LD diesels.

 

[WOOCHOW]

Mercedes-Benz sells their mid-size car with a diesel option.
I owned a 2005 model for about a year. 200hp and close to 400 ft/lb of torque. Upper 30's in mpg on the highway. A very nice machine although not something one would buy for fuel mileage alone. I have had 3 diesel powered cars, 2 TDI's and the Merc, and am convinced that diesel is the way to go for automotive applications, especially commuter cars.
I currently drive an 06 Civic which returns about 37-38 mpg on my 110 mile daily commute. The motor is rated at 140hp but achieves that power only at high RPM. In normal driving on the highway at speeds of 65 to 80 mph the car is constantly shifting out of overdrive or at times actually dropping down a gear on inclines to maintain speed. All of the diesels I owned, have handled my commute with ease. The torque available down low is quite satisfying. Mercedes will have a diesel in the "C" class probably for the 2009 model year, and BMW is putting a 3 litre turbo-diesel in the X5 SUV next year. There is a bit of positive specualtion about a 3 series diesel here shortly. Things are getting exciting! When I ditch the Civic, it WILL be most likely for another diesel vehicle.

 

[BrianWC]

Yeah, here diesel is 2.69 and RUG is $3.15 and rising. I certainly would have no problems with my nextdoor neighbor's early 80's Merc.

 

[H2GURU]

Choosing a diesel seems to give the buyer some sort of control over escalating pump prices. Because of the complete lack of diesel choices and thus a premium must be paid, unless you drve more than 30,000 per year you probably wont save in the long run. The information that manufacturers seem to have tells them that they aren't big enough sellers? I say this because Toyota used to offer them as did Volvo and Nissan as well as GMs forray into this segment. I have no doubt however, that on this board there are many here that would try one. I realize that those 80s Mercedes are fine, but the smell of a diesel and the refinement of a Mercedes never made sense to me? The price in New England for diesel varies greatly due to home heating oil production, thus limiting your savings further. I would venture a guess that women (50% of the buyers)and their universal disdain for all things diesel, are impacting our choices here in the U.S.?

 

[wileyE]

Here in WA all fuel prices have steadily risen to the now 3.42 for reg. Funny thing happened though, at 2.99 diesel stopped going up and has held fast. In normal times diesel here costs the same or more as reg, so I think somebody somewhere put the brakes on the diesel price increase. I'd like to think it was after the truckers staged a parade protest along I-5, but I'm sure there more to it. Anyway it seems to be locked at 2.99 while other prices still remain volatile.

Friend brought a new Ford Ranger diesel back from Mexico, grey market. His company had a whole fleet of the things used on a four year project down there, he bought it from them when the job was over. Nice little mpg truck.

 

[BrianWC]

I dare say women owners were a higher proportion than men regarding the late 70's early 80's Merc wagons. IIRC, they were popular in California until they were outlawed.

As far as the smell goes, I love it. Take a look at one on eBay. The wagons with 3rd row seats are a very utilitarian vehicle.

 

[Tornado Red]

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I dare say women owners were a higher proportion than men regarding the late 70's early 80's Merc wagons. IIRC, they were popular in California until they were outlawed.

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Diesels have never been outlawed in California. It's just that in some years Mercedes, VW, etal., have not built models that met CARB standards. But you've always been able to buy used ones with 7500+ miles and import them to California.

As for the 1980's models, mostly 300D's and 300TD's.... they are still very numerous around here, as rust is not a common problem. When RUG climbed past $2.00, all the Mercedes diesels came out of storage; and now of course with RUG at $3.30 or more, they are being driven even more miles. (Which is good for them.)

 

[Gary Allan]

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so I think somebody somewhere put the brakes on the diesel price increase

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You can thank Spring. Give Summer a nod too if they actually retreat.

 

[BrianWC]

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Diesels have never been outlawed in California. It's just that in some years Mercedes, VW, etal., have not built models that met CARB standards. But you've always been able to buy used ones with 7500+ miles and import them to California.

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Apologies for not being more clear. That is what I meant.

 

[DriveHard]

I have over 150,000 miles on my 2001 Jetta, and know several people with almost double that mileage. My last tank was 808 miles on 15.699 gallons...so a little over 51 mpg. I'll let that sink it...808 miles on ONE tank of fuel. I drive 40 miles round trip to work and fill up once a month...

I also have larger nozzles, so a bit more power than stock...the good thing about nozzles is you also get better economy if you can keep your foot out of it.

 

[rjundi]

Are you sure on that 40k interval on the Passat TDI? It has a different motor than Golf/Jetta. Its an incredible diesel car.

 

[Tornado Red]

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Are you sure on that 40k interval on the Passat TDI? It has a different motor than Golf/Jetta. Its an incredible diesel car.

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The 1996-97 Passat TDI and the 1997-1999 Jetta TDI have a 60k-mile timing belt replacement schedule. But from what I've heard they were cheap and relatively easy to replace.

1998-2001 New Beetle TDI and the 1999.5-2001 Jetta and Golf TDIs came from the factory with a TB rated for 40k miles if an automatic transmission model, or 60k miles if a MT model. All of these can be upgraded to the 100k-mile longlife TB. The TB on these models is more difficult to change, and some dealerships are still installing the old short-life timing belts if the customer doesn't insist on the upgraded parts.

Late 2001 models (build date after about April 2001) and all 2002 models had the long-life TB but were only rated for 80k miles. 2003 and later models had a large roller/idler with more robust bearings, and the entire TB was rated for 100k miles. However, a large percentage of 2003s have needed TB replacement early because of roller/idler bearing failures, or because of a bad waterpump. My own was replaced at ~70k miles, but then the replacement TB lasted a full 100k miles, and I expect the same interval from the current one.

 

[John K]

"Good car to train kids to drive a manual transmission--almost impossible to stall."
Almost my words exactly back in 1984, but my daughter proved me wrong more than once. Had an 81 Rabbit diesel. My other daughter totaled it when it had 100k, but before that I thought I'd drive it forever. I found MPG more sensitive to speed with that car than others I've owned. I could get 55 mpg if I drove 55 mph. 65 mph would drop to about 48 mpg....

 

[Bill in Utah]

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Here 40 miles from Los Angeles diesel is going for $3.05/gal while gasoline is selling for $3.44/gal. I'd say thats a big difference... At work (110 miles from LA) diesel is in a similar situation - almost 50 cents cheaper than gasoline.

This not the case elsewhere in the US?

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Here its $3.20 for gas vs $2.99 for diesel.

The problem I see here for diesels is once the temps drop (yes even with the winter blend) diesels have issues starting up.

Add a cold snap with summer blend and you do see co-workers / neighbors with their diesels not running or starting well.

Plus make sure you have a set of gloves to fill up with. We have a few diesel trucks at work and I hate to fill them up. Gas stations don't keep the pumps clean.

I'll stay with my $14k out the door car than gets 40++ mpg with ease. Simpler and cheaper than spend $20k+ for something else.

It always starts and runs no matter what fuel blend or temps.

Take care, bill