Battery charger cable placement

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Hi everyone!

This morning temps dropped below -35c here in Alberta and the batteries were not having it. I went by Canadian Tire and picked up their 2A intelligent battery charger, something I could plug in and forget about.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-eliminator-intelligent-battery-charger-2a-0111506p.html

Now I plugged it in, hooked up the cables directly to the battery, and walked away. Later I was bored and decided to read the reviews on the product and people have complained of this charger ruining their batteries. I opened up the instructions, which I should have done in the first place, and it nowhere displayed that you may connect the charger alligator clamps directly to the battery.
The diagram I saw shows the positive clamp directly on the positive terminal, and the negative connected to a ground on the vehicle. So I moved the cable and called it a day. What would the real big difference be if I had left the clamps hooked directly up to the battery?

Thanks!
 
It doesn't make a difference, the only reason they suggest connecting the negative to a ground on the vehicle is to minimize the risk of arcing. In very rare situations if the battery is outgassing, a spark could cause it to explode.
 
2 amps is not much. It'll eventually get a dead battery charged, but many seem to think a few hours at 2 amps is ideal, when the battery would roll its eyes at that opinion and ask for another 36 hours of a 2 amp charger and still not be fully charged.

Too many battery chargers make claims they simply cannot back up.

I call automatic battery chargers automatic underchargers as their goal is not to fully charge a battery, but to ensure it is not overcharged, since that can be dangerous, and give the lawyers a field day.

And since all batteries vary slightly as to their chargng voltages and durations, a 'one size fits all' claim is more a 'one size is inadequate for all.

A cold battery really needs higher charging voltages
 
I appreciate the insight into battery chargers as this is my first purchase, you figure I should find a charger with a higher amperage rating? I did see the noco chargers there. They appeared to be on the pricy side, which one is ideal?
 
The charger shouldn't generate any sparks as long as it's not plugged into AC, which I'm sure the instructions say to do last.

As a permanent maintainer, I'd install it as neatly as possible where it won't interfere with day-to-day operations or jump starting someone else. Going to a ground is fine as long as you keep it free of corrosion.

BTW, good idea on the charger, 2 amps going into the battery to "charge" it will also keep it warm which will make lots more power available to the starter.
 
Originally Posted By: Dr_No
Hi everyone!

This morning temps dropped below -35c here in Alberta and the batteries were not having it. I went by Canadian Tire and picked up their 2A intelligent battery charger, something I could plug in and forget about.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-eliminator-intelligent-battery-charger-2a-0111506p.html

Now I plugged it in, hooked up the cables directly to the battery, and walked away. Later I was bored and decided to read the reviews on the product and people have complained of this charger ruining their batteries. I opened up the instructions, which I should have done in the first place, and it nowhere displayed that you may connect the charger alligator clamps directly to the battery.
The diagram I saw shows the positive clamp directly on the positive terminal, and the negative connected to a ground on the vehicle. So I moved the cable and called it a day. What would the real big difference be if I had left the clamps hooked directly up to the battery?

Thanks!


If the battery is really dead then charge it with any kind of 6 to 12 amp charger then you can keep it charged with the 2 amp one.

What you have is more of a battery maintainer or float charger. Some of them time the charge and if they cannot get the battery fully charged in 24 hours they assume something is wrong and shutdown.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: Dr_No
Hi everyone!

This morning temps dropped below -35c here in Alberta and the batteries were not having it. I went by Canadian Tire and picked up their 2A intelligent battery charger, something I could plug in and forget about.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-eliminator-intelligent-battery-charger-2a-0111506p.html

Now I plugged it in, hooked up the cables directly to the battery, and walked away. Later I was bored and decided to read the reviews on the product and people have complained of this charger ruining their batteries. I opened up the instructions, which I should have done in the first place, and it nowhere displayed that you may connect the charger alligator clamps directly to the battery.
The diagram I saw shows the positive clamp directly on the positive terminal, and the negative connected to a ground on the vehicle. So I moved the cable and called it a day. What would the real big difference be if I had left the clamps hooked directly up to the battery?

Thanks!


If the battery is really dead then charge it with any kind of 6 to 12 amp charger then you can keep it charged with the 2 amp one.

What you have is more of a battery maintainer or float charger. Some of them time the charge and if they cannot get the battery fully charged in 24 hours they assume something is wrong and shutdown.


It in fact started, just it struggled and just about didn't turn over. I left it plugged in all evening along with the block heater and she fired right up. I think I'll fix it under the hood as a good combo while its parked for weeks at a time whilst I'm in camp. Thanks for the input everyone.
 
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
I call automatic battery chargers automatic underchargers as their goal is not to fully charge a battery, but to ensure it is not overcharged.......


Actually, my experience is that this is more likely on vehicle charging systems. On both of my vehicles, I can return home from 700 mile trip, and connect the charger at 4 amps. It will always take at least an hour and a half before going into float mode.
 
Vehicle voltage regulators can really limit voltage to a depleted battery which can accept much more amperage if voltage levels were higher.

Far too many people act like an alternator is an all powerful, nrar instant battery charger, ignoring the fact that it takes hours and hours to get a battery from 80% charged to a true 100% charged.

I bet if you were to take a Hydrometer reading on that battery whose charger went into float mode after 4 hours, and if you had a baseline fully charged specific gravity to compare it to, you'd find the charger went into float too soon. Sometimes an hour or 2 at 16 volts is what is needed to revert back to maximum specific gravity after chronic undercharging
 
Originally Posted By: Dr_No
I appreciate the insight into battery chargers as this is my first purchase, you figure I should find a charger with a higher amperage rating? I did see the noco chargers there. They appeared to be on the pricy side, which one is ideal?


The G3500 is more than ideal and even has a setting for cold temperature charging below freezing. If you shop around on the Web you might be able to find a better than MSRP price.

The G7200 is a better buy since it can recover sulfated batteries but both are great. You get what you pay for with most chargers, the Noco chargers won't fry your batteries or under charge them since they actually have real processors on them.

One of the things I like is all the accessories they offer, you can buy a permanent attachment and keep it on the vehicle for easy quick connect charging.
 
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Vehicle voltage regulators can really limit voltage to a depleted battery which can accept much more amperage if voltage levels were higher.

Far too many people act like an alternator is an all powerful, nrar instant battery charger, ignoring the fact that it takes hours and hours to get a battery from 80% charged to a true 100% charged.

I bet if you were to take a Hydrometer reading on that battery whose charger went into float mode after 4 hours, and if you had a baseline fully charged specific gravity to compare it to, you'd find the charger went into float too soon. Sometimes an hour or 2 at 16 volts is what is needed to revert back to maximum specific gravity after chronic undercharging

I get batches of new batteries delivered and I'd put automatic charger on it.
After they've "finished", I check with hydrometer. Most of them would be in the good range.
One or two may not.

I'd then finished up with a manual charger at 15V, for a couple more hours, before the charging current drop below 1A.
When I measure with hydrometer again, it will then be good.

So, I agree with you on the automatic "undercharger". They are designed for safety, rather than fully charging a battery.
 
What dishdude mentioned about arcing is very true. However you do not need to worry about that with your charger. To calculate how long it'll take to fully charge your battery you'll need to know how much amp/hours your battery is. Small cars are usually in the 80ah range. Large sedans are 120. This is not CCA (Cold Cranking Amps).

You then just divide by 2 since your charger is 2 amps. So 40 hours for 80ah. Realistically it isn't a constant 2 amps. As the bettery gets closer to 100% it starts to resist amps as it heats up.
 
Originally Posted By: razel
What dishdude mentioned about arcing is very true. However you do not need to worry about that with your charger. To calculate how long it'll take to fully charge your battery you'll need to know how much amp/hours your battery is. Small cars are usually in the 80ah range. Large sedans are 120. This is not CCA (Cold Cranking Amps).

You then just divide by 2 since your charger is 2 amps. So 40 hours for 80ah. Realistically it isn't a constant 2 amps. As the bettery gets closer to 100% it starts to resist amps as it heats up.


Most batteries are in the 40-60 amp hour range, unless you're driving a Porsche cayenne.

http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/bci-battery-group-sizes.html
 
Charging amps begin to taper well before battery nears full charge.
The higher the amps, the lower the state of charge of the battery when they begin to taper.

40 hours on a two amp charger will not necessarily fully charge a fully depleted 80 amp hour battery.

It is not that simple. Add in the charging algorithms which make it past the lawyers and the marketing department and the charge profile on these so called microprocessor controlled smart chargers and you might find yourself with an ineffective yet expensive paperweight.

An Abused flooded battery can require 150% the energy taken from it to return to full charge, but in general this number is closer to 110%.

Beware of charger marketing hype. A 6 amp manual charger and a person with a hydrometer can do better job than the fanciest most expensive "8 stage Desulfating" well marketed charger out there.

I got news for you, any time a battery is charged it is being desulfated, the trick is to revert the old hardened sulfate back into the electrolyte. Pulse desulfation might just as easily knock the lead sulfate crystals off the plates where they collect at the bottom of the cell and eventually short out the battery.

Of course one hopes instead that these magical pulses revert the hardened sulfate back into the electrolyte completely and restore maximum specific gravity.

"Desulfation" pulse chargers have strong arguments for, and against, on both sides.

I think perhaps it is effective in some situations, but it for sure is not an end all be all magical battery restorer the marketing department will have you believe.

I use an Ammeter, an amp hour counter, a 500 watt rated adjustable voltage switching power supply and a glass turkey baster sytle temperature compensated hydrometer to guide my regularly deeply cycled batteries upto and above 98%. The Power supply maxes out at 41amps, but I've seen my alternator provide the same battery well over 75 amps until 14.9v is reached, when the amps required to hold 14.9v taper

A starting battery that is never cycled below 99% need not worry so much about proper recharging. It is is when the battery is drained below 80% that a battery really fights charging current and needs a significant amount of time at higher voltage to get back up near 100% state of charge where a lead acid battery wants to be. The alternator generally is poor at doing this, except for Bubba's chromed well marketed high amp alternator, which can of course defy the laws of physics.

Blinking green fully charge indicators are jokes, at least when they first indicate a full charge. If the charger continues to hold 13.2v+ for a week or 3 afterward float stage is indicated, then I might believe that soothing green full charge light, but otherwise, not a chance.
 
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