Superbuick96
Site Donor 2023
I understand that motor oils fall into groups I,II,III,IV,V. So I assume the higher the group the better the make up of the stock? Id like to know what groups any oils fall into, wether it be dino,blend, or syn....
Base Stock Groups?
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There was another thread recently that asked which oils fell into which group... I will see if I can find you the link.
The base-stocks are better as the numbers get higher, but with 4&5 there seems to be some debate at which is truly best.
I - Not commonly used any more and certainly not used in current spec'ed oil unless it's a carrier oil for additives. Even then there would be very little used at all.
II/II+ - Common SM/GF4 rated Dino oils
III/III+ - Some content found in Higher quality Dino's, most content found in Synthetics like Pennzoil Platinum and some is found in Mobil-1 (speculative)
IV - Primarily PAO based synthetics like Amsoil etc. Some IV content in oils like M1.
V - Primarily Ester based synthetics like Redline etc.
The base-stocks are better as the numbers get higher, but with 4&5 there seems to be some debate at which is truly best.
I - Not commonly used any more and certainly not used in current spec'ed oil unless it's a carrier oil for additives. Even then there would be very little used at all.
II/II+ - Common SM/GF4 rated Dino oils
III/III+ - Some content found in Higher quality Dino's, most content found in Synthetics like Pennzoil Platinum and some is found in Mobil-1 (speculative)
IV - Primarily PAO based synthetics like Amsoil etc. Some IV content in oils like M1.
V - Primarily Ester based synthetics like Redline etc.
Originally Posted By: Superbuick96
I understand that motor oils fall into groups I,II,III,IV,V. So I assume the higher the group the better the make up of the stock? Id like to know what groups any oils fall into, wether it be dino,blend, or syn....
Not quite that simple, it's not like good better best when comparing finished formulated oil products. Most of us don't run straight base stock in our cars. In short a product using a lower grp can perform as well or better than a higher group in a finished product.
I understand that motor oils fall into groups I,II,III,IV,V. So I assume the higher the group the better the make up of the stock? Id like to know what groups any oils fall into, wether it be dino,blend, or syn....
Not quite that simple, it's not like good better best when comparing finished formulated oil products. Most of us don't run straight base stock in our cars. In short a product using a lower grp can perform as well or better than a higher group in a finished product.
StevieC's list is pretty good.... I would like to clarify the Group III. it's what we commonly call hydrocracked dino oil, or highly refined. Unfortunately, many large oil suppliers use this as their base stock and advertise "Full Synthetic". In fact most of the big ones: Pennzoil Platinum, Valvoline Syn, Castrol Syntec (Their "Edge" product is a group 4 or 5) and yes, most of the Mobil 1 products are primarily group III based. except for their "EP - Extended Performance" products. certainly, some oils contain more than one base stock
Superbuick96
Site Donor 2023
Thanks for the info,this explains allot!....Does anyoneone here know for sure what all the different brands,and blends fall under? Or perhaps could share what they do know?
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A lot of what oils contain is a secret because most oil brands like to keep it that way to keep the competition guessing.
Some come out and tell you, like Valvoline for example who posts on their website that their Syn-Power oil is made from primarily GRP-III base-stocks.
Then there is our good guy Johnny who used to work for Pennzoil and is retired and can confirm what Pennzoil products use for base stocks for you.
Mobil-1 dances around this question every time someone asks them via their website or support phone number, this is balanced by some of the M1 nuts on the board who think it's gods gift to engines... It's highly speculative and can't be confirmed. (It's a very good syn oil IMO, just not "the" only good syn oil as some would have you believe.)
In the end, it doesn't matter what the oil contains IMO, so long as it gets the job done. The only way to test if an oil worked is to keep using it and drive your car as long as you can.
All oils today including SM rated dino are great quality and will offer 99% of vehicles on the road the protection they need to see a longer life that you imagined or wanted.
Unfortunately in the US you aren't as big on rust-proofing as we are in Canada, so most likely Rust will get the car before the oil gets the engine!
IMO you should use whatever you can find on sale that meets the specification for your engine and the demands your driving habits, climactic conditions and all other stressors place on the oil. Change at a reasonable interval and keep your engine running in top-order with tune-ups and other regular maintenance and this will surely return you many trouble free miles.
It's not rocket science! It's as simple as: A + B = C
Some come out and tell you, like Valvoline for example who posts on their website that their Syn-Power oil is made from primarily GRP-III base-stocks.
Then there is our good guy Johnny who used to work for Pennzoil and is retired and can confirm what Pennzoil products use for base stocks for you.
Mobil-1 dances around this question every time someone asks them via their website or support phone number, this is balanced by some of the M1 nuts on the board who think it's gods gift to engines... It's highly speculative and can't be confirmed. (It's a very good syn oil IMO, just not "the" only good syn oil as some would have you believe.)
In the end, it doesn't matter what the oil contains IMO, so long as it gets the job done. The only way to test if an oil worked is to keep using it and drive your car as long as you can.
All oils today including SM rated dino are great quality and will offer 99% of vehicles on the road the protection they need to see a longer life that you imagined or wanted.
Unfortunately in the US you aren't as big on rust-proofing as we are in Canada, so most likely Rust will get the car before the oil gets the engine!
IMO you should use whatever you can find on sale that meets the specification for your engine and the demands your driving habits, climactic conditions and all other stressors place on the oil. Change at a reasonable interval and keep your engine running in top-order with tune-ups and other regular maintenance and this will surely return you many trouble free miles.
It's not rocket science! It's as simple as: A + B = C
Superbuick96
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: StevieC
A lot of what oils contain is a secret because most oil brands like to keep it that way to keep the competition guessing.
Some come out and tell you, like Valvoline for example.
Then there is Johnny who used to work for Pennzoil and is retired and can confirm it for you.
Mobil-1 dances around this question every time someone asks them via their website or support phone number so it's high speculative.
In the end, it doesn't matter what the oil contains IMO, so long as it gets the job done. The only way to test if an oil worked is to keep using it and drive your car as long as you can.
All oils today including SM rated dino are great quality and will offer 99% of vehicles on the road the protection they need to see a long life.
Use whatever you can find on sale that meets the specification and the demands for your engine/operating conditions and change at a reasonable interval. This will surely return you many trouble free miles.
Thanks for aswering my questions. Now that you mention it I do remember reading a thread on here on how some companies are pretty hush hush when it comes to they're formula
A lot of what oils contain is a secret because most oil brands like to keep it that way to keep the competition guessing.
Some come out and tell you, like Valvoline for example.
Then there is Johnny who used to work for Pennzoil and is retired and can confirm it for you.
Mobil-1 dances around this question every time someone asks them via their website or support phone number so it's high speculative.
In the end, it doesn't matter what the oil contains IMO, so long as it gets the job done. The only way to test if an oil worked is to keep using it and drive your car as long as you can.
All oils today including SM rated dino are great quality and will offer 99% of vehicles on the road the protection they need to see a long life.
Use whatever you can find on sale that meets the specification and the demands for your engine/operating conditions and change at a reasonable interval. This will surely return you many trouble free miles.
Thanks for aswering my questions. Now that you mention it I do remember reading a thread on here on how some companies are pretty hush hush when it comes to they're formula
The whole 'secret formula' spiel is
Every major oil company has a huge lab, full fancy equipment and dozens of petroleum chemists. When not working on next year's 'new and improved' goop, they are no doubt busy dissecting the competition's lube. I have to think that most companies have a VERY good idea of what the others are selling. The only people left in the dark by the "It's proprietary" line are the customers.
Every major oil company has a huge lab, full fancy equipment and dozens of petroleum chemists. When not working on next year's 'new and improved' goop, they are no doubt busy dissecting the competition's lube. I have to think that most companies have a VERY good idea of what the others are selling. The only people left in the dark by the "It's proprietary" line are the customers.
Originally Posted By: Geonerd
The whole 'secret formula' spiel is
Every major oil company has a huge lab, full fancy equipment and dozens of petroleum chemists. When not working on next year's 'new and improved' goop, they are no doubt busy dissecting the competition's lube. I have to think that most companies have a VERY good idea of what the others are selling. The only people left in the dark by the "It's proprietary" line are the customers.
No doubt about that. Anyone who doesn't get that is pretty shot.
The whole 'secret formula' spiel is
Every major oil company has a huge lab, full fancy equipment and dozens of petroleum chemists. When not working on next year's 'new and improved' goop, they are no doubt busy dissecting the competition's lube. I have to think that most companies have a VERY good idea of what the others are selling. The only people left in the dark by the "It's proprietary" line are the customers.
No doubt about that. Anyone who doesn't get that is pretty shot.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Some come out and tell you, like Valvoline for example who posts on their website that their Syn-Power oil is made from primarily GRP-III base-stocks.
----------------------------------------------------
Mobil-1 dances around this question every time someone asks them via their website or support phone number,
I noticed this difference of Mobil and Valvoline. This is exactly why I am switching over to SynPower and MaxLife. It is also noteworthy that Valvoline even tells you the % of Syn in their blend (30%). In addition to being open and honest about this, Valvoline gives a generous 30% Syn. vs. the 10-15-20% ratio some of the other brands blends have.
Some come out and tell you, like Valvoline for example who posts on their website that their Syn-Power oil is made from primarily GRP-III base-stocks.
----------------------------------------------------
Mobil-1 dances around this question every time someone asks them via their website or support phone number,
I noticed this difference of Mobil and Valvoline. This is exactly why I am switching over to SynPower and MaxLife. It is also noteworthy that Valvoline even tells you the % of Syn in their blend (30%). In addition to being open and honest about this, Valvoline gives a generous 30% Syn. vs. the 10-15-20% ratio some of the other brands blends have.
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Some come out and tell you, like Valvoline for example who posts on their website that their Syn-Power oil is made from primarily GRP-III base-stocks.
----------------------------------------------------
Mobil-1 dances around this question every time someone asks them via their website or support phone number,
I noticed this difference of Mobil and Valvoline. This is exactly why I am switching over to SynPower and MaxLife. It is also noteworthy that Valvoline even tells you the % of Syn in their blend (30%). In addition to being open and honest about this, Valvoline gives a generous 30% Syn. vs. the 10-15-20% ratio some of the other brands blends have.
In Dec. 08 I called Mobil tech and they told me all M1 oils are grp 4 oils. With that said I'm sure their oils is a blend of 3-4-5. If you think any oil company is going to tell you their formulas you are wrong. All I know for sure is the M1 oils I've used for decades has done a great job of keeping my engines very clean and long lived.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Some come out and tell you, like Valvoline for example who posts on their website that their Syn-Power oil is made from primarily GRP-III base-stocks.
----------------------------------------------------
Mobil-1 dances around this question every time someone asks them via their website or support phone number,
I noticed this difference of Mobil and Valvoline. This is exactly why I am switching over to SynPower and MaxLife. It is also noteworthy that Valvoline even tells you the % of Syn in their blend (30%). In addition to being open and honest about this, Valvoline gives a generous 30% Syn. vs. the 10-15-20% ratio some of the other brands blends have.
In Dec. 08 I called Mobil tech and they told me all M1 oils are grp 4 oils. With that said I'm sure their oils is a blend of 3-4-5. If you think any oil company is going to tell you their formulas you are wrong. All I know for sure is the M1 oils I've used for decades has done a great job of keeping my engines very clean and long lived.
Add Amsoils XL line of oils to your list of grp3 labeled and priced synthetic.
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