B767 goes off end of runway in Vancouver.

[Just a civilian pilot]

Definitely no snow at the airport that night. In the mountains north of the city almost certainly but the snow level was still several hundred feet. Runway was most definitely wet and cold.

Just as I thought.

They were dealing with just a wet runway that night, runway surface condition wise.

 

[4WD]

.The pay cut will be an issue and then the loss of prestige although I have been told Women are said to worship forklift certified men . In reality I probably should just buy a riding lawn mower and be happy cutting the lawn. That would probably max out my abilities .

That might explain the forklifting while texting I just saw

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Just confirmed by my flight ops.

All our ACARS ( or IPAD…..if ACARS not working ) landing distance calculations are TALPA compliant and from Airbus ( not in house performance and engineering ).

No extra 15% in emergencies or system failures ( touch down by 1500 feet ).

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Landing Performance Assessments at Time of Arrival (Turbojets)

“Once the actual landing distance is determined an additional safety margin of at least 15% should be
added to that distance. Except under emergency conditions flightcrews should not attempt to
land on runways that do not meet the assessment criteria and safety margins”.

https://nbaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/safo06012.pdf

 

[Astro14]

I do a landing performance analysis for every arrival.

Every.

Arrival.

But most of the time, it is an automated function, predicated on normal flaps (25 or 30) and using current metar data. I can over-ride the metar if I want to see the effect of changes in wind or surface conditions.

The important bit is the TALPA for a non-normal configuration.

Again, our data for the 767 comes from Boeing. And that includes 15% after the corrections are made.

I would declare an emergency (and they used PAN-PAN) for a non-normal landing.

I want the latitude to choose the runway, the approach speed, the approach type and anything else that ATC will normally dictate, and I do want the ARFF standing by, just in case…

 

[Astro14]

Also, I want to point out that ATC was extraordinarily helpful during this situation. The controller offered them whatever they wanted. That’s what you hope for. I merely suggest that I would declare the emergency to ensure that kind of help.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

I do a landing performance analysis for every arrival.

Every.

Arrival.

But most of the time, it is an automated function, predicated on normal flaps (25 or 30) and using current metar data. I can over-ride the metar if I want to see the effect of changes in wind or surface conditions.

The important bit is the TALPA for a non-normal configuration.

Again, our data for the 767 comes from Boeing. And that includes 15% after the corrections are made.

I would declare an emergency (and they used PAN-PAN) for a non-normal landing.

I want the latitude to choose the runway, the approach speed, the approach type and anything else that ATC will normally dictate, and I do want the ARFF standing by, just in case…

I only do a landing distance calculation for every landing only because we have to.

Up until 10 years ago, we never did an inflight landing distance calculation ( we would if the runway was contaminated or had a system failure ) because flight dispatch ( like all airlines ) already checks the landing distance. Unless the runway is different from what the flight plan showed us landing on, or the weather changed significantly, I was 100% comfortable not checking it again. I never saw anything scary , or surprising.

In all my years flying, I have never heard of a landing distance problem because the pilots didn’t check it when flight dispatch already did assuming the same runway, no significant weather changes and no system failures.

What I have seen is pilots landing too long and going off the runway even when they checked the landing distance.

I find it annoying having to check it when landing on the same 11,000 foot runway I have landed on for 25 years to be honest because I know it’s impossible to not have enough runway when it’s bare and dry, or just wet.

Now, landing on a 7000 runway, wet on the A321 at MLW ( or close ), I check it carefully or if convective activity is around and moderate to heavy rain is a risk on final ( hydroplaning ), I make sure to run a code 2 for landing in case braking action is poor.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Clearly they just needed some knobbier tires and they could have driven that bad boy right out of there.

Edit - Jetflix is a great name

 

[Astro14]

Looks like it will need new engines. Dents on the leading edge of the cowlings means FOD likely entered the engines themselves.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Love to know how much runway their calculations said they required and what their policy is regarding how far the runway they can touch down.

Expensive for the airline , airport , and other airlines due to delays with the runway closed.

They didn’t take very long , time wise, to do the checklist and calculations.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Looks like it will need new engines. Dents on the leading edge of the cowlings means FOD likely entered the engines themselves.

Might be a dumb question - would they likely have had the reversers still activated when going off?

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

On the Airbus, they recommend we stow the reversers at 70 knots. They work better the faster the aircraft is going but I would keep them out until the end of the runway if I thought I couldn’t stop because every foot helps.

The main consideration is trying to not go off the end or not limit how far you go off if you do. Engine damage ( going off the end with full reverse ) wouldn’t be on my mind at that point.

They are lucky they had soft grass ( acted like EMAS ) to stop them versus a road really close and just hard ground at the end.

Southwest B737 killed a kid in a car when they went off the runway at Midway airport.

 

[Astro14]

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Might be a dumb question - would they likely have had the reversers still activated when going off?

There’s just too many variables for me to make a guess.

Friend of mine ran off the runway once, knew he was going to, and shut both motors down before he left the concrete.

The jet was drug out of the mud, hosed off and put back into service because shutting down the engines precluded any damage from all the mud and debris that got all over the airplane.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

If you shut the engines down on the Airbus, no more anti skid ( accumulator brakes only ) and you will need even more distance to stop and every foot counts.

Remember that A321 that did the emergency landing in Las Vegas due to a strong smell ( wasn’t any smoke )?

They had no anti skid and hit the brakes causing a brake fire, plus used more runway than they would have had they had anti skid.

Imagine having a brake fire and fuel leaking due to damage done to the aircraft going off the runway and smashing into stuff?

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I have a feeling this order of mine is on that plane lol

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

On the Airbus, they recommend we stow the reversers at 70 knots. They work better the faster the aircraft is going but I would keep them out until the end of the runway if I thought I couldn’t stop because every foot helps.

The main consideration is trying to not go off the end or not limit how far you go off if you do. Engine damage ( going off the end with full reverse ) wouldn’t be on my mind at that point.

They are lucky they had soft grass ( acted like EMAS ) to stop them versus a road really close and just hard ground at the end.

Southwest B737 killed a kid in a car when they went off the runway at Midway airport.

He is a picture of where that B737 ended up.

You don’t always have the luxury of soft grass if you go off the end.

 

[wpod]

He is a picture of where that B737 ended up.

You don’t always have the luxury of soft grass if you go off the end.

View attachment 251238

That is ugly.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

That is ugly.

There was a young kid killed when it hit a car.