AWD and wagon-like?
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Sounds like a no brainier for the Subaru. Arguably the best AWD system out there (Check all the Subaru VS. XXXXXX tests on YouTube) Hands down, my 97' base wagon has been the best vehicle I have ever owned. Paid $2800 for it and I've had it four years with no problems other than standard maintenance.
I fly by 90% of the traffic in the mountains and average 29 mpg. Not too bad on a 15 year old car.
I fly by 90% of the traffic in the mountains and average 29 mpg. Not too bad on a 15 year old car.
Originally Posted By: supton
Background needs: again, 25k+miles/year, want wagon for cargo capacity (but I guess I could go sedan--don't want to, but could), 2 small kids. Would like third row, but have managed thus far. Would like AWD for NH winters. Do like the center diff lock on RAV's.
Just get the RAV4. You appear to be comfortable with Toyotas, it appears that the RAV4 meets all your needs, and you've mentioned it a handful of times over the past few months. The AWD system is just fine for your use. It tows what you want it to tow. A model with the 3.5L V-6 engine will be way sufficient for the task at hand. It'll be comfortable, it'll drive well, it'll be tall enough to carry some cargo, you actually CAN buy one with three rows of seats, etc.
Just go on and get it already.
Background needs: again, 25k+miles/year, want wagon for cargo capacity (but I guess I could go sedan--don't want to, but could), 2 small kids. Would like third row, but have managed thus far. Would like AWD for NH winters. Do like the center diff lock on RAV's.
Just get the RAV4. You appear to be comfortable with Toyotas, it appears that the RAV4 meets all your needs, and you've mentioned it a handful of times over the past few months. The AWD system is just fine for your use. It tows what you want it to tow. A model with the 3.5L V-6 engine will be way sufficient for the task at hand. It'll be comfortable, it'll drive well, it'll be tall enough to carry some cargo, you actually CAN buy one with three rows of seats, etc.
Just go on and get it already.
Does the Volovo XC70 come with AWD? I think it does - what about that one?
I'd go Subaru over Toyota - Subbies seem to have a bit of 'character' and not so boring like Toy's
I'd go Subaru over Toyota - Subbies seem to have a bit of 'character' and not so boring like Toy's
Subaru: has a taller first gear than my VW, and my VW is too hard on the clutch as it is while towing. So a manual is out, a torque convertor is in. The RAV is FWD until wheel slippage is detected--but if you anticipate it, you can lock the center diff. The automatic Subaru is 80% to front wheels, not sure how fast it sends torque to the rear wheels--and how much wheel spinning will have occured by the time that occurs. So I'm not sure who wins here.
A light truck is going to be what, 18mpg unloaded? I can exceed EPA highway, if I wanted: but let's call it 18 vs 26mpg. That is 427 gallons difference per year. Similar purchase cost I think (comparing 3 year old vehicles, although RAV might be cheaper). Do I really need a truck to move 1,600lb + maybe 1,000lb more (people and stuff) for all of 2,000miles per year? [We already discussed the Colorado, and how it's a non-contender, so I'm assuming full sized. Or 4Runner, or who knows what that has V8 or near-V8 power.] Vast majority of time this is going to be a single occupant vehicle.
Try as I might, I just cannot bring myself to have two vehicles. I realize it's a light duty vehicle--but isn't it still heavier duty than my VW?
A light truck is going to be what, 18mpg unloaded? I can exceed EPA highway, if I wanted: but let's call it 18 vs 26mpg. That is 427 gallons difference per year. Similar purchase cost I think (comparing 3 year old vehicles, although RAV might be cheaper). Do I really need a truck to move 1,600lb + maybe 1,000lb more (people and stuff) for all of 2,000miles per year? [We already discussed the Colorado, and how it's a non-contender, so I'm assuming full sized. Or 4Runner, or who knows what that has V8 or near-V8 power.] Vast majority of time this is going to be a single occupant vehicle.
Try as I might, I just cannot bring myself to have two vehicles. I realize it's a light duty vehicle--but isn't it still heavier duty than my VW?
I'm leery about "character". I did that already. I own a VW diesel. Which I have loved. But it's showing its age. And I've spent about $6,400 over 8 years in repairs. And it needs more. I'm 90% sure that any other vehicle would have needed struts and/or wheel bearings over that age span, so, it's not as if I should expect anything else to be 100% problem free. [And that didn't include timing belts etc!] But I have to say, I'm kinda looking forward to blandness for a bit. It works for many others, and perhaps it'll get me to drive a bit slower on the highway too.
It's taken me a long time to accept it, but I'm an appliance operator. I need to be. I'd rather be doing other things, like work or play, not "work on the car". I feel bad about thinking about a car as "disposable" but I'm wondering if I should buy something with the intent of only driving for 4 years or so. Every time my VW has needed anything other than routine service it has been a headache, and a source of stress (who will do it? will it be done right?).
It's taken me a long time to accept it, but I'm an appliance operator. I need to be. I'd rather be doing other things, like work or play, not "work on the car". I feel bad about thinking about a car as "disposable" but I'm wondering if I should buy something with the intent of only driving for 4 years or so. Every time my VW has needed anything other than routine service it has been a headache, and a source of stress (who will do it? will it be done right?).
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Have you driven a RAV4? It doesn't drive like other Toyotas. It's always been praised in reviews that I have read for having a fun-to-drive demeanor to go along with its bulletproof reliability. Those are two things that are hard to pass up...especially when you're already comfortable with the brand to begin with.
My co-worker has a 2007 RAV4. I changed the alternator out in it recently and drove it. I must say that I was impressed. It feels very light on its feet and is fairly quiet and comfortable. Hers has 112,000 miles on it, with original everything but fluids and battery and tires. Tires are new Firestone Destination LE (not the LE2s). Solid, solid vehicle.
My co-worker has a 2007 RAV4. I changed the alternator out in it recently and drove it. I must say that I was impressed. It feels very light on its feet and is fairly quiet and comfortable. Hers has 112,000 miles on it, with original everything but fluids and battery and tires. Tires are new Firestone Destination LE (not the LE2s). Solid, solid vehicle.
+1 for the Rav4.
It seems like it will suite your needs perfectly.
It seems like it will suite your needs perfectly.
JTK
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Originally Posted By: supton
...The automatic Subaru is 80% to front wheels..
Where did you get that number? I'm not sure myself, but I don't think that's correct.
I know the bias varies based on model and transmission type.
Joel
...The automatic Subaru is 80% to front wheels..
Where did you get that number? I'm not sure myself, but I don't think that's correct.
I know the bias varies based on model and transmission type.
Joel
my Dad has a highlander hybrid that he loves. he tows a utility trailer with it, no problems. hwy mpgs show 26-28. room for 7, can be had cheap used, but hard to find. he went like 250miles to get it.
No, haven't test driven one yet. I try to only do so if/when serious. Since I'm getting more serious I should probably go make time to do so.
Subaru: I'd have to look for it, but it's only the manuals that are 50/50. Depends upon the setup, but I think it's been 50/50 for a while for manual and 80/20 for auto. The CVT and/or latest manuals might be different.
Subaru: I'd have to look for it, but it's only the manuals that are 50/50. Depends upon the setup, but I think it's been 50/50 for a while for manual and 80/20 for auto. The CVT and/or latest manuals might be different.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Just get the RAV4. You appear to be comfortable with Toyotas, it appears that the RAV4 meets all your needs, and you've mentioned it a handful of times over the past few months. The AWD system is just fine for your use. It tows what you want it to tow. A model with the 3.5L V-6 engine will be way sufficient for the task at hand. It'll be comfortable, it'll drive well, it'll be tall enough to carry some cargo, you actually CAN buy one with three rows of seats, etc.
Just go on and get it already.
lol. Agreed... I was surprised to see that you started this thread in February!
I do understand your hesitance, but it sounds like you've exhausted all the alternatives... time to test-drive a RAV4 and Outback and see which you like better!
Just get the RAV4. You appear to be comfortable with Toyotas, it appears that the RAV4 meets all your needs, and you've mentioned it a handful of times over the past few months. The AWD system is just fine for your use. It tows what you want it to tow. A model with the 3.5L V-6 engine will be way sufficient for the task at hand. It'll be comfortable, it'll drive well, it'll be tall enough to carry some cargo, you actually CAN buy one with three rows of seats, etc.
Just go on and get it already.
lol. Agreed... I was surprised to see that you started this thread in February!
I do understand your hesitance, but it sounds like you've exhausted all the alternatives... time to test-drive a RAV4 and Outback and see which you like better!
Ha! No, I just hate making bad decisions. Buy a $20 tool and find it junk, that's petty cash. Live and learn. Spend $20k on a vehicle, and you wonder if you'll be able to send your kids to college. I guess if one can stretch that to 5 years, you can walk away from it, zero resale value: but still, that's a lot of dough on the line.
And, just so you know, I've thought about having a spare vehicle for about 12 years. I've never been able to justify it. But I think about it constantly... I tend to act slow but deliberately, since I know have to carry that decision on through to the end. I don't think I've given myself an ulcer over this car purchase, well, so far the tests have been negative.
And, just so you know, I've thought about having a spare vehicle for about 12 years. I've never been able to justify it. But I think about it constantly... I tend to act slow but deliberately, since I know have to carry that decision on through to the end. I don't think I've given myself an ulcer over this car purchase, well, so far the tests have been negative.
The RAV4 with the 3.5 V6 really moves. Kind of a sleeper if you will. I think you will like it if you go for a spin.
Originally Posted By: supton
And, just so you know, I've thought about having a spare vehicle for about 12 years. I've never been able to justify it. But I think about it constantly...
I had a spare vehicle, a '97 Dodge Dakota, for a few years. It was handy to have, but in the end, I realized that a utility trailer will do 100% of what I used the pickup for, and even an SUV will do 90% of what I used the pickup for. So I sold the Dakota and traded my sedan for my CR-V. I've carried lawn mowers in the CR-V, 10' deck boards, mulch, TREES, etc. None of that was possible with the sedan we had. Any real heavy hauling I need to do gets done with a $300 utility trailer I bought used from a co-worker. I've hauled sofas and lawn tractors on the trailer before.
In our situation, a multi-purpose wagon/SUV combined with a utility trailer has the most value. And we actually have two multi-purpose wagons/SUVs. The trailer hardly gets used anymore, honestly. Maybe twice a year.
And, just so you know, I've thought about having a spare vehicle for about 12 years. I've never been able to justify it. But I think about it constantly...
I had a spare vehicle, a '97 Dodge Dakota, for a few years. It was handy to have, but in the end, I realized that a utility trailer will do 100% of what I used the pickup for, and even an SUV will do 90% of what I used the pickup for. So I sold the Dakota and traded my sedan for my CR-V. I've carried lawn mowers in the CR-V, 10' deck boards, mulch, TREES, etc. None of that was possible with the sedan we had. Any real heavy hauling I need to do gets done with a $300 utility trailer I bought used from a co-worker. I've hauled sofas and lawn tractors on the trailer before.
In our situation, a multi-purpose wagon/SUV combined with a utility trailer has the most value. And we actually have two multi-purpose wagons/SUVs. The trailer hardly gets used anymore, honestly. Maybe twice a year.
I used my trailer twice this year. Ladders for a church function, and to bring home a door for the house. Trailer registration is $25/year, at that rate it'll cost more in tires (depending upon if you want to replace 'em every 7 years or so). I've long loved the utility of a hatchback. A small trailer goes a long ways.
Actually, when I bought my house I used a 4x8 utility trailer to move. Took nearly ten trips, and the Jetta was loaded up too; but it's big enough for that.
Actually, when I bought my house I used a 4x8 utility trailer to move. Took nearly ten trips, and the Jetta was loaded up too; but it's big enough for that.
Mine's a 5x8 with a rear ramp and heavy gauge construction. Not a trailer you get at Home Depot. It's not too awful light either...I'd guess it weighs 500-600 pounds empty. I cannot lift one side myself to raise a tire off the ground, but I can barely lift the tongue and move it around by hand...though it is a chore.
The CR-V pulls it fine, even with a lawn tractor loaded, but with the ramp on it, you can definitely feel it at higher speeds: it's just a big sail sticking up in the air.
The CR-V pulls it fine, even with a lawn tractor loaded, but with the ramp on it, you can definitely feel it at higher speeds: it's just a big sail sticking up in the air.
Originally Posted By: supton
Ha! No, I just hate making bad decisions. Buy a $20 tool and find it junk, that's petty cash. Live and learn. Spend $20k on a vehicle, and you wonder if you'll be able to send your kids to college. I guess if one can stretch that to 5 years, you can walk away from it, zero resale value: but still, that's a lot of dough on the line.
And, just so you know, I've thought about having a spare vehicle for about 12 years. I've never been able to justify it. But I think about it constantly... I tend to act slow but deliberately, since I know have to carry that decision on through to the end. I don't think I've given myself an ulcer over this car purchase, well, so far the tests have been negative.
I know, and it's a good idea to make big decisions slowly.
But it's fun to read about someone getting a new car!
Ha! No, I just hate making bad decisions. Buy a $20 tool and find it junk, that's petty cash. Live and learn. Spend $20k on a vehicle, and you wonder if you'll be able to send your kids to college. I guess if one can stretch that to 5 years, you can walk away from it, zero resale value: but still, that's a lot of dough on the line.
And, just so you know, I've thought about having a spare vehicle for about 12 years. I've never been able to justify it. But I think about it constantly... I tend to act slow but deliberately, since I know have to carry that decision on through to the end. I don't think I've given myself an ulcer over this car purchase, well, so far the tests have been negative.
I know, and it's a good idea to make big decisions slowly.
But it's fun to read about someone getting a new car!
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