I wonder if the OP got lost in a Toys R US store since he hasn't replied back to anyone.
AvGas
- Thread starter HerrStig
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Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
It would be a shame if you had to park your fully restored Cardinal due to fuel prices.
I remember you posting pictures of the restoration and rebuild.
Thanks for the nice comments. I'm still enjoying my Cardinal RG. I do fly it regularly. However, I cannot afford to fly it as I would like (many long trips) It really is a cross country airplane, and cruises efficiently once up at altitude.
I'd like to fly it from FL to CA this week, however, the fuel burn would be right at 300 gallons round trip. No big deal if gas were $2/gal. But at $6.00 nearly everywhere now, I can't do it ($1800 gas, ugh, plus tie down charges and so on)
It would be a shame if you had to park your fully restored Cardinal due to fuel prices.
I remember you posting pictures of the restoration and rebuild.
Thanks for the nice comments. I'm still enjoying my Cardinal RG. I do fly it regularly. However, I cannot afford to fly it as I would like (many long trips) It really is a cross country airplane, and cruises efficiently once up at altitude.
I'd like to fly it from FL to CA this week, however, the fuel burn would be right at 300 gallons round trip. No big deal if gas were $2/gal. But at $6.00 nearly everywhere now, I can't do it ($1800 gas, ugh, plus tie down charges and so on)
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Do you think that the Light Sport category has any potential?
The restrictions in allowable gross weight, number of seats, operations, power and speed mean that these are traveling airplanes only for the most patient and determined, but they are relatively inexpensive to buy and to own and they are good for the type of low and slow summertime flying most GA pilots did back in the day.
While they may not enjoy FAA type certificates, they are at least available new at a reasonable price.
There are also amatuer built experimental category aircraft, with plenty of traveling airplanes to choose from, but the high performance ones aren't cheap or quick to build, and having someone ghost-build one for you is neither cheap nor legal.
A former state governor, a progressive Republican named Jim Rhodes, made sure that every county in Ohio got an airport and a community college.
The community colleges are mostly thriving.
Many of these airports are ghost towns and you wonder how an FBO can survive on them.
I think that Cujet is right in that fuel prices are killing GA, with many piston airplanes seeing very few hours of flying each year.
I don't know how anyone could afford regular use of a piston twin today.
I'm not sure where the solution lies, since avgas, whether 100LL or some new unleaded fuel is a boutique product produced in limited batches to meet limited demand, with higher prices further reducing demand resulting in lower production and even higher prices.
The restrictions in allowable gross weight, number of seats, operations, power and speed mean that these are traveling airplanes only for the most patient and determined, but they are relatively inexpensive to buy and to own and they are good for the type of low and slow summertime flying most GA pilots did back in the day.
While they may not enjoy FAA type certificates, they are at least available new at a reasonable price.
There are also amatuer built experimental category aircraft, with plenty of traveling airplanes to choose from, but the high performance ones aren't cheap or quick to build, and having someone ghost-build one for you is neither cheap nor legal.
A former state governor, a progressive Republican named Jim Rhodes, made sure that every county in Ohio got an airport and a community college.
The community colleges are mostly thriving.
Many of these airports are ghost towns and you wonder how an FBO can survive on them.
I think that Cujet is right in that fuel prices are killing GA, with many piston airplanes seeing very few hours of flying each year.
I don't know how anyone could afford regular use of a piston twin today.
I'm not sure where the solution lies, since avgas, whether 100LL or some new unleaded fuel is a boutique product produced in limited batches to meet limited demand, with higher prices further reducing demand resulting in lower production and even higher prices.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
GA is dying...no one wants to learn to fly...it's expensive...so we're caught in a downward spiral of airports closing, more expensive insurance, more expensive fuel, more expensive airplanes...creating more barriers to flying, which raises the cost for those who do fly...
+1
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
It would be a shame if you had to park your fully restored Cardinal due to fuel prices.............
A lot of us have parked our planes, dissolved our flying club, and no longer fly due to the ridiculously high costs. As in avgas, routine maintenance, insurance, and unexpected maintenance costs. All of which contributed to the more than doubling of our hourly rate (wet) for a nicely equipped 172.
GA is dying...no one wants to learn to fly...it's expensive...so we're caught in a downward spiral of airports closing, more expensive insurance, more expensive fuel, more expensive airplanes...creating more barriers to flying, which raises the cost for those who do fly...
+1
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
It would be a shame if you had to park your fully restored Cardinal due to fuel prices.............
A lot of us have parked our planes, dissolved our flying club, and no longer fly due to the ridiculously high costs. As in avgas, routine maintenance, insurance, and unexpected maintenance costs. All of which contributed to the more than doubling of our hourly rate (wet) for a nicely equipped 172.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: expat
We have gone Lead Free in automotive gas for decades now, why do we need it in AvGas?
Try reading.... the Air & Space article.
I don't happen to have a copy handy at the moment
Google worked for me.
http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/The-Fight-Over-Avgas-215585091.html
And It's free...not that Air & Space isn't worth buying.
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: expat
We have gone Lead Free in automotive gas for decades now, why do we need it in AvGas?
Try reading.... the Air & Space article.
I don't happen to have a copy handy at the moment
Google worked for me.
http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/The-Fight-Over-Avgas-215585091.html
And It's free...not that Air & Space isn't worth buying.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Do you think that the Light Sport category has any potential?
The restrictions in allowable gross weight, number of seats, operations, power and speed mean that these are traveling airplanes only for the most patient and determined, but they are relatively inexpensive to buy and to own and they are good for the type of low and slow summertime flying most GA pilots did back in the day.
While they may not enjoy FAA type certificates, they are at least available new at a reasonable price.
The restrictions in the Light Sport category make it unlikely that it will be anything more than a niche market. Mostly for older guys who can't get a medical anymore. We looked into purchasing one for flight training. Would have been a good trainer, as far as I can tell.
It's my opinion that 180+/- a few Kts is the minimum speed necessary for "real world" US travel. Take into account airline time constraints, and the 180Kt airplane becomes very useful. Light sport is simply worlds away from that.
A friend operates a 180Kt velocity, with the same engine as my Mighty Thunder Cardinal. Burns 10.5/hr at 200MPH. That's where new light aircraft need to be (in my honest opinion)
Do you think that the Light Sport category has any potential?
The restrictions in allowable gross weight, number of seats, operations, power and speed mean that these are traveling airplanes only for the most patient and determined, but they are relatively inexpensive to buy and to own and they are good for the type of low and slow summertime flying most GA pilots did back in the day.
While they may not enjoy FAA type certificates, they are at least available new at a reasonable price.
The restrictions in the Light Sport category make it unlikely that it will be anything more than a niche market. Mostly for older guys who can't get a medical anymore. We looked into purchasing one for flight training. Would have been a good trainer, as far as I can tell.
It's my opinion that 180+/- a few Kts is the minimum speed necessary for "real world" US travel. Take into account airline time constraints, and the 180Kt airplane becomes very useful. Light sport is simply worlds away from that.
A friend operates a 180Kt velocity, with the same engine as my Mighty Thunder Cardinal. Burns 10.5/hr at 200MPH. That's where new light aircraft need to be (in my honest opinion)
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Only problem being that you'd have to build the Velocity, or you'd have to find one someone else built and you'd have to trust the quality of their work.
Most high performance experimentals have quirks that would preclude their being type certified factory-built aircraft.
They're either too labor intensive to be built and sold or they lack positive pitch stability.
The experimentals can offer remarkable performance, but that comes at a cost.
Every aircraft is a compromise.
There is no free lunch in aircraft design and construction, but you already know that.
Most high performance experimentals have quirks that would preclude their being type certified factory-built aircraft.
They're either too labor intensive to be built and sold or they lack positive pitch stability.
The experimentals can offer remarkable performance, but that comes at a cost.
Every aircraft is a compromise.
There is no free lunch in aircraft design and construction, but you already know that.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Only problem being that you'd have to build the Velocity, or you'd have to find one someone else built and you'd have to trust the quality of their work.
Most high performance experimentals have quirks that would preclude their being type certified factory-built aircraft.
They're either too labor intensive to be built and sold or they lack positive pitch stability.
The experimentals can offer remarkable performance, but that comes at a cost.
Every aircraft is a compromise.
There is no free lunch in aircraft design and construction, but you already know that.
All so true! Sad, isn't it?
I do believe that manufacturers could build real world, 200MPH, 200HP, 4 seat, certified aircraft. Obviously, retractable gear would be required.
But, it would require serious effort to achieve the desirable flight characteristics, safety and performance. Mooney came close enough (160Kts) with the 200HP "F" model w/lopresti cowl.
Today, I do think it could be done.
I've flown my co-workers 200HP Velocity. It's performance is quite good at altitude. But, I don't care for much of the weirdness that plane has. And I'm 100% certain that plane is light years away from being certifiable. Still, I'd love to own one!
Only problem being that you'd have to build the Velocity, or you'd have to find one someone else built and you'd have to trust the quality of their work.
Most high performance experimentals have quirks that would preclude their being type certified factory-built aircraft.
They're either too labor intensive to be built and sold or they lack positive pitch stability.
The experimentals can offer remarkable performance, but that comes at a cost.
Every aircraft is a compromise.
There is no free lunch in aircraft design and construction, but you already know that.
All so true! Sad, isn't it?
I do believe that manufacturers could build real world, 200MPH, 200HP, 4 seat, certified aircraft. Obviously, retractable gear would be required.
But, it would require serious effort to achieve the desirable flight characteristics, safety and performance. Mooney came close enough (160Kts) with the 200HP "F" model w/lopresti cowl.
Today, I do think it could be done.
I've flown my co-workers 200HP Velocity. It's performance is quite good at altitude. But, I don't care for much of the weirdness that plane has. And I'm 100% certain that plane is light years away from being certifiable. Still, I'd love to own one!
I've owned a 1978 RG for 20 years. Due to the costs I finally quit flying it last winter. Been trying to sell it since. Can't seem to give it away.
Originally Posted By: skippy
I've owned a 1978 RG for 20 years. Due to the costs I finally quit flying it last winter. Been trying to sell it since. Can't seem to give it away.
Really? A Cardinal RG or some other RG?
Is it in good shape? It seems the Cardinal RG is one of the light aircraft that people actually want. So, I'm surprised if that's the case. I get people looking to purchase mine regularly.
I'm not going to try and make the case that light aircraft ownership is cheap, for most people, it's not cheap at all. In fact, obviously inexpensive parts (FAA certified) cost 3 times what they should under the best of conditions.
PM me if you want to talk outside of the forum.
I've owned a 1978 RG for 20 years. Due to the costs I finally quit flying it last winter. Been trying to sell it since. Can't seem to give it away.
Really? A Cardinal RG or some other RG?
Is it in good shape? It seems the Cardinal RG is one of the light aircraft that people actually want. So, I'm surprised if that's the case. I get people looking to purchase mine regularly.
I'm not going to try and make the case that light aircraft ownership is cheap, for most people, it's not cheap at all. In fact, obviously inexpensive parts (FAA certified) cost 3 times what they should under the best of conditions.
PM me if you want to talk outside of the forum.
It's a 177RG. I suspect it's not selling because it's close to TBO. The real problem is not the Cardinal though, it's the L39 I own with a couple other guys. Can't afford both and since the RG is so much more boring it has to go.
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