The steel and paint that is used for plain jane steel rims now days is about the bottom of the barrel as far as quality goes. I put a thick coat of Rustoleum semi-gloss black on any new set, and also touch the up every time they come off a vehicle. If you do not they rust like crazy. I especially protect the welds from rust.
AutoSock-Fabric "snow chain" thing. Anyone use em?
- Thread starter rg200amp
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We had these in the Ambulance Service in London back in 2008/9, they were next to useless IMOH, need to remove if snow coverage becomes patchy so no good on semi cleared or busy urban roads, they were no better than standard Michelin Primacy tyres that are probably classed as a summer tyre in the US or Canada.
In the UK all weather tyres are rare away from SUV's and winter tyre use is minimal.
I have never got stuck in snow anywAy but I think they helped a few of the "younger" staff who perhaps were seeing snow for the first time in their driving. Career, the first time in snow and being expected to blue light it is a recipe for disaster.
They were only used on driven wheels on the Zafira and Astra, and were used on the outer of the double rear wheels on the Ambulances.
The next year the service went over to winter tyres from October to March, by August the fitters admitted that they may have "lost" several hundred almost new Michelin Primacy's and left the winter tyres on a large section of the fleet till the next winter, not sure if they bothered with winter tyres this year as I have since retired, but mates that still work there say the haven't seen many.
I think they are a budget get you out of trouble measure and driver skill is more relevant.
But then I never used winter tyres in Scotland during the snow, and neither do Ny friends that still live in Scotland.
In the UK all weather tyres are rare away from SUV's and winter tyre use is minimal.
I have never got stuck in snow anywAy but I think they helped a few of the "younger" staff who perhaps were seeing snow for the first time in their driving. Career, the first time in snow and being expected to blue light it is a recipe for disaster.
They were only used on driven wheels on the Zafira and Astra, and were used on the outer of the double rear wheels on the Ambulances.
The next year the service went over to winter tyres from October to March, by August the fitters admitted that they may have "lost" several hundred almost new Michelin Primacy's and left the winter tyres on a large section of the fleet till the next winter, not sure if they bothered with winter tyres this year as I have since retired, but mates that still work there say the haven't seen many.
I think they are a budget get you out of trouble measure and driver skill is more relevant.
But then I never used winter tyres in Scotland during the snow, and neither do Ny friends that still live in Scotland.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
We had these in the Ambulance Service in London back in 2008/9, they were next to useless IMOH, need to remove if snow coverage becomes patchy so no good on semi cleared or busy urban roads, they were no better than standard Michelin Primacy tyres that are probably classed as a summer tyre in the US or Canada.
In the UK all weather tyres are rare away from SUV's and winter tyre use is minimal.
I have never got stuck in snow anywAy but I think they helped a few of the "younger" staff who perhaps were seeing snow for the first time in their driving. Career, the first time in snow and being expected to blue light it is a recipe for disaster.
They were only used on driven wheels on the Zafira and Astra, and were used on the outer of the double rear wheels on the Ambulances.
The next year the service went over to winter tyres from October to March, by August the fitters admitted that they may have "lost" several hundred almost new Michelin Primacy's and left the winter tyres on a large section of the fleet till the next winter, not sure if they bothered with winter tyres this year as I have since retired, but mates that still work there say the haven't seen many.
I think they are a budget get you out of trouble measure and driver skill is more relevant.
But then I never used winter tyres in Scotland during the snow, and neither do Ny friends that still live in Scotland.
No offense to you. But people love to talk about driver experience. How they are great an can drive a RWD golf cart across the North Pole because of their skills.
Driver skill is important. But it's physics. If you have Zero traction, no skill can help. If you know what your doing, sure you have a higher chance of avoiding a situation that leaves you with zero traction. But in city driving, you can only do what you can with a car in front and behind you.
We had these in the Ambulance Service in London back in 2008/9, they were next to useless IMOH, need to remove if snow coverage becomes patchy so no good on semi cleared or busy urban roads, they were no better than standard Michelin Primacy tyres that are probably classed as a summer tyre in the US or Canada.
In the UK all weather tyres are rare away from SUV's and winter tyre use is minimal.
I have never got stuck in snow anywAy but I think they helped a few of the "younger" staff who perhaps were seeing snow for the first time in their driving. Career, the first time in snow and being expected to blue light it is a recipe for disaster.
They were only used on driven wheels on the Zafira and Astra, and were used on the outer of the double rear wheels on the Ambulances.
The next year the service went over to winter tyres from October to March, by August the fitters admitted that they may have "lost" several hundred almost new Michelin Primacy's and left the winter tyres on a large section of the fleet till the next winter, not sure if they bothered with winter tyres this year as I have since retired, but mates that still work there say the haven't seen many.
I think they are a budget get you out of trouble measure and driver skill is more relevant.
But then I never used winter tyres in Scotland during the snow, and neither do Ny friends that still live in Scotland.
No offense to you. But people love to talk about driver experience. How they are great an can drive a RWD golf cart across the North Pole because of their skills.
Driver skill is important. But it's physics. If you have Zero traction, no skill can help. If you know what your doing, sure you have a higher chance of avoiding a situation that leaves you with zero traction. But in city driving, you can only do what you can with a car in front and behind you.
I do love your kind of reply, insulting somebody then inferring that they are in fact at best over egging the pudding or at worst lying.
I am still unsure what motivates replies such as yours.
But there was me foolishly thinking that this was a forum where somebody can comment about their personal experiences of a product that may help another forum member.
There will always be those who are stronger, smarter, richer or luckier.
It does seem that on Internet forums the worst thing you can do is state that you are likely to be a higher skilled driver.
Why didn't you feel the need to infer I don't own a Taxi, diesel Patfinder or a Volvo V50, unless I provide copies of ownership papers.
I assume you have never used the Autosock product then?
Or was you sole reason for posting to attack another forum member?
I am still unsure what motivates replies such as yours.
But there was me foolishly thinking that this was a forum where somebody can comment about their personal experiences of a product that may help another forum member.
There will always be those who are stronger, smarter, richer or luckier.
It does seem that on Internet forums the worst thing you can do is state that you are likely to be a higher skilled driver.
Why didn't you feel the need to infer I don't own a Taxi, diesel Patfinder or a Volvo V50, unless I provide copies of ownership papers.
I assume you have never used the Autosock product then?
Or was you sole reason for posting to attack another forum member?
I grew up in the snowy part of our state, one of the western suburbs of Cleveland.
I also had a job there later that involved driving about 50K each year in all sorts of weather on late 'eighties A/S tires in RWD cars with posi.
Never got stuck and never ditched a car.
We now have Blizzacks on one FWD car, and they are awesome in the snow.
So are the two Subarus on A/S rubber.
You don't really need winter tires, but they sure are nice to have.
A good AWD on fresh A/S rubber is probably better than a typical FWD or RWD on winter tires.
And, yes, AWD does help with both cornering and braking.
If you haven't had a good AWD, like a Subaru or a VW/Audi product, don't feel free to argue the contrary.
I was amazed at how good the Forester was in its first winter on the OEM Geolander G95s.
We've had A/S tires on a variety of FWD and RWD vehicles and have driven them through a variety of blizzard events as well as ice storms without incident.
Not saying that dedicated winter tires aren't great, just saying that well developed winter driving skills are great as well.
In a perfect world, we'd all mount dedicated winters in late November and replace them with dedicated summers in early April.
This is a world none of us live in, which is why A/S tires are OEM standard on most cars and most replacement tires are A/S as well.
I do agree with you that Blizzacks are nice, and they aren't even the best winter tire.
I also had a job there later that involved driving about 50K each year in all sorts of weather on late 'eighties A/S tires in RWD cars with posi.
Never got stuck and never ditched a car.
We now have Blizzacks on one FWD car, and they are awesome in the snow.
So are the two Subarus on A/S rubber.
You don't really need winter tires, but they sure are nice to have.
A good AWD on fresh A/S rubber is probably better than a typical FWD or RWD on winter tires.
And, yes, AWD does help with both cornering and braking.
If you haven't had a good AWD, like a Subaru or a VW/Audi product, don't feel free to argue the contrary.
I was amazed at how good the Forester was in its first winter on the OEM Geolander G95s.
We've had A/S tires on a variety of FWD and RWD vehicles and have driven them through a variety of blizzard events as well as ice storms without incident.
Not saying that dedicated winter tires aren't great, just saying that well developed winter driving skills are great as well.
In a perfect world, we'd all mount dedicated winters in late November and replace them with dedicated summers in early April.
This is a world none of us live in, which is why A/S tires are OEM standard on most cars and most replacement tires are A/S as well.
I do agree with you that Blizzacks are nice, and they aren't even the best winter tire.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I do love your kind of reply, insulting somebody then inferring that they are in fact at best over egging the pudding or at worst lying.
I am still unsure what motivates replies such as yours.
But there was me foolishly thinking that this was a forum where somebody can comment about their personal experiences of a product that may help another forum member.
There will always be those who are stronger, smarter, richer or luckier.
It does seem that on Internet forums the worst thing you can do is state that you are likely to be a higher skilled driver.
Why didn't you feel the need to infer I don't own a Taxi, diesel Patfinder or a Volvo V50, unless I provide copies of ownership papers.
I assume you have never used the Autosock product then?
Or was you sole reason for posting to attack another forum member?
Oooook. Lets take this piece by piece. . . .
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"But there was me foolishly thinking that this was a forum where somebody can comment about their personal experiences of a product that may help another forum member."
This is a forum were somebody can comment about anything they want. (except religion, politics, sex, and a few other things that only the super elite know about (They have been past on since the dawn of man. The unwritten rules of BITOG.)
Anyway;
You briefly discussed your experience with the product. I am thankful for that.
You then went into: Driver Skill.
Driver skill does play into winter driving. But all I wanted to make clear is the key point here and the whole reason for my post is "TRACTION".
Skill can't help if you don't have traction. Being I: live in Philadelphia (not an area with major snow/ice issues, consider myself a semi skilled driver, and drive a FWD car with new all-season tires Traction is not an issue for the vast majority of the time.
As I stated in this post. I am looking for a product I can use in a pinch to provide me with a bit more traction if I find myself "stuck".
Your foolish thinking was that you can state your viewpoints on a subject, and not have someone, if they have a differing view point, come in on the topic, and disagree with you.
Disagreement, argument, fighting is the "norm" on an internet forum.
If you know anything about me, you know I am one that L-O-V-E-S a good argument. Nothing tickles me more. I actually try to get into at least one disagreement daily. Critical thinking, debate, deep thought. It does the grey matter good.
Yea sure:
Nick R, Overkill, and countless others here have my name at the top of their "if I go on a kill spree, start with these dirt bags" list, BUT I think we are all in agreement that it's all good fun.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"There will always be those who are stronger, smarter, richer or luckier."
True. But I really don't see how that has anything at all to do with tire traction aids. . . I may have missed a memo. . . .
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"It does seem that on Internet forums the worst thing you can do is state that you are likely to be a higher skilled driver."
I have had my fair share of "driving experience" as I am confident you have as well.
However interesting our experiences may be, they are not really relevant to the topic of traction aids.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"Why didn't you feel the need to infer I don't own a Taxi, diesel Patfinder or a Volvo V50, unless I provide copies of ownership papers."
Probably because I really have no interest in investigating your automobile profile. Although, the fact it has nothing to do with the topic of traction aids probably came into play in my mind set as well.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"I assume you have never used the Autosock product then?"
Well, if i did this whole thread would be pointless. So, assuming im not into making totally pointless threads, you assume correctly.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"Or was you sole reason for posting to attack another forum member?"
Attack? I may have had a slight laps in cognitive ability, but I honestly don't recall ever attacking anyone in this thread. Especially you.
You may have, in some way, interpreted my personal view points on traction vs driver skill and my sarcastic commentary on the subject personally. Sadly, I have no control on how my content is digested by it's viewers.
I do love your kind of reply, insulting somebody then inferring that they are in fact at best over egging the pudding or at worst lying.
I am still unsure what motivates replies such as yours.
But there was me foolishly thinking that this was a forum where somebody can comment about their personal experiences of a product that may help another forum member.
There will always be those who are stronger, smarter, richer or luckier.
It does seem that on Internet forums the worst thing you can do is state that you are likely to be a higher skilled driver.
Why didn't you feel the need to infer I don't own a Taxi, diesel Patfinder or a Volvo V50, unless I provide copies of ownership papers.
I assume you have never used the Autosock product then?
Or was you sole reason for posting to attack another forum member?
Oooook. Lets take this piece by piece. . . .
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"But there was me foolishly thinking that this was a forum where somebody can comment about their personal experiences of a product that may help another forum member."
This is a forum were somebody can comment about anything they want. (except religion, politics, sex, and a few other things that only the super elite know about (They have been past on since the dawn of man. The unwritten rules of BITOG.)
Anyway;
You briefly discussed your experience with the product. I am thankful for that.
You then went into: Driver Skill.
Driver skill does play into winter driving. But all I wanted to make clear is the key point here and the whole reason for my post is "TRACTION".
Skill can't help if you don't have traction. Being I: live in Philadelphia (not an area with major snow/ice issues, consider myself a semi skilled driver, and drive a FWD car with new all-season tires Traction is not an issue for the vast majority of the time.
As I stated in this post. I am looking for a product I can use in a pinch to provide me with a bit more traction if I find myself "stuck".
Your foolish thinking was that you can state your viewpoints on a subject, and not have someone, if they have a differing view point, come in on the topic, and disagree with you.
Disagreement, argument, fighting is the "norm" on an internet forum.
If you know anything about me, you know I am one that L-O-V-E-S a good argument. Nothing tickles me more. I actually try to get into at least one disagreement daily. Critical thinking, debate, deep thought. It does the grey matter good.
Yea sure:
Nick R, Overkill, and countless others here have my name at the top of their "if I go on a kill spree, start with these dirt bags" list, BUT I think we are all in agreement that it's all good fun.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"There will always be those who are stronger, smarter, richer or luckier."
True. But I really don't see how that has anything at all to do with tire traction aids. . . I may have missed a memo. . . .
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"It does seem that on Internet forums the worst thing you can do is state that you are likely to be a higher skilled driver."
I have had my fair share of "driving experience" as I am confident you have as well.
However interesting our experiences may be, they are not really relevant to the topic of traction aids.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"Why didn't you feel the need to infer I don't own a Taxi, diesel Patfinder or a Volvo V50, unless I provide copies of ownership papers."
Probably because I really have no interest in investigating your automobile profile. Although, the fact it has nothing to do with the topic of traction aids probably came into play in my mind set as well.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"I assume you have never used the Autosock product then?"
Well, if i did this whole thread would be pointless. So, assuming im not into making totally pointless threads, you assume correctly.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
"Or was you sole reason for posting to attack another forum member?"
Attack? I may have had a slight laps in cognitive ability, but I honestly don't recall ever attacking anyone in this thread. Especially you.
You may have, in some way, interpreted my personal view points on traction vs driver skill and my sarcastic commentary on the subject personally. Sadly, I have no control on how my content is digested by it's viewers.
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Rand, you are correct about the winter set taking up some of the miles that would otherwise have gone on the summer set.
The biggest hassle I have about keeping two sets of tires (4 winters and 4 summers) for each vehicle it that the steel rims require me to 1) take them to a car wash and blast off all the crud such as winter salt and then give them a day or more to dry, and then 2) spray paint touch up of about a whole spray can of Rustoleum semi-gloss black per set of 4 tires, and 3 knock the air pressure down to about 4 to 6 PSI and store on the tires on their sides elevated by 4 red bricks on the bottom tire in each stack so as to take it easy on the belts inside of the tires. And then put the air back in before putting them back on.
This is way overkill!
I take the winters off and felt mark which position they came off RF, RR, LF or LR. Then I wash out any gravel on the back side of the rims and mount the summer tires. Check torque and air pressure and I am done.
The winters get stacked up in my garage until next fall. I have not seen any ill effects of doing it this way. They have a bit of rust on the back side of the rims.
Rand, you are correct about the winter set taking up some of the miles that would otherwise have gone on the summer set.
The biggest hassle I have about keeping two sets of tires (4 winters and 4 summers) for each vehicle it that the steel rims require me to 1) take them to a car wash and blast off all the crud such as winter salt and then give them a day or more to dry, and then 2) spray paint touch up of about a whole spray can of Rustoleum semi-gloss black per set of 4 tires, and 3 knock the air pressure down to about 4 to 6 PSI and store on the tires on their sides elevated by 4 red bricks on the bottom tire in each stack so as to take it easy on the belts inside of the tires. And then put the air back in before putting them back on.
This is way overkill!
I take the winters off and felt mark which position they came off RF, RR, LF or LR. Then I wash out any gravel on the back side of the rims and mount the summer tires. Check torque and air pressure and I am done.
The winters get stacked up in my garage until next fall. I have not seen any ill effects of doing it this way. They have a bit of rust on the back side of the rims.
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