AT&T looking to end copper landline phone service in California

[Rmay635703]

Is there anyone who still uses a twisted pair old school landline anymore? Even all the older people I know with land lines still, are using their Internet provider and not an actual phone line.

My mom has the oldest copper wire phone line in the county . Many times when internet and cellular are down you can still make phone calls.

The real reason landlines are dying is because phone companies and local governments have tried to make exorbitant profits off them and inversely have been killing DSL services in areas where no other real option exists.

There are also laws that prevent “creative use” of old landlines like obsolete the 56k data limit because of “ringer voltages “ which isn’t a thing anymore, due to modern tech that deals with static, copper should be good to about 50mb data caps, tons of latency but still better than the dialup you get 10 miles off the highway.

Not all that long ago my non-subsidized landline was $15/month, even at $9.99 a month they could make profit on landlines in most regions. When I dropped dsl and the landline I was near $40/month for just a local line.

16 of the last 20 years AT&T has actually made more profits on landlines than cellular. The strange dichotomy is that anywhere there is cellular there is most certainly landline to the towers as satellite links are expensive

 

[MVAR]

The only way DSL could have gotten faster over the years was by removing the last copper mile distance, used to be from office to home and later to the "lawn fridge", and finally would be fiber to the exterior wall of your house. When you are finally there you might as well just sell them fiber internet and convert that inside the house to a VOIP copper line. My parents did that, still has a voice line from Sonic, and that becomes fiber next to the fiber router all within 10 feet from the "landline". Everything inside the phone company has been fiber for a couple decades now, doing virtual circuit instead of packet switching. Obviously they still have the battery backup but it has all be digitized. So when people say "landline sounds better than digital voice call" it is not because of analog, because everything is digital before you get to the phone company.


Landline also becomes overloaded (you will hear a different ringtone) in disaster.

At my current work we use fiber to connect between a -60C RF chamber to room temp, no other metal wire can transfer the signal out reliably. If you have problem with fiber it is because your equipment is not good, not because fiber is not as good as copper (copper get RF interference from all the signals and power line noise, fiber doesn't).

As I mentioned above, everything from your home to the lawn fridge is copper, then afterward it becomes fiber and digital before it goes into the phone office.

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For power system protection, plc(power line carrier) & copper are more reliable than fiber. Not as fast & fiber has allowed new high speed reclosing but the comm issues are constant. Doesn’t matter if the fiber was owned/installed by AT&T, Verizon, public utilities or the state. They all have daily trouble while the old infrastructure is rock solid. AT&T & Verizon are both horrible at repairing the leased lines & have the highest failure rates BY FAR.

Copper landlines would likely become overloaded during an emergency if it was still the sole communication network. Currently, during large power outages the old network is the reliable one. During the storm last weekend, I couldn’t get a call or text out for several hours. Landline worked flawlessly.

 

[vavavroom]

I gave my older daughter an apple watch with Screen Time and other parental control stuff. LTE watch, can call and message people I have control over, knowing where she is at, no way to use "social media" or watch video all day on, no camera.

Almost as good as a dumb phone in 2024.

Great approach. I remember how, at age 12, I owned and rode a motorbike for over half a year without my parents knowing until I crashed it into a city bus. Even then they didn't find out what had really happened and they still don't know. I presume your daughter doesn't have friends with phones she can borrow. You'll be surprised how crafty kids can be.

 

[PandaBear]

Great approach. I remember how, at age 12, I owned and rode a motorbike for over half a year without my parents knowing until I crashed it into a city bus. Even then they didn't find out what had really happened and they still don't know. I presume your daughter doesn't have friends with phones she can borrow. You'll be surprised how crafty kids can be.

I'm sure one day she would, but for now anything we can reduce the urge to keep checking social media and binge watching videos would be good. You can't control everything but the probability of things in life.

 

[vavavroom]

I'm sure one day she would, but for now anything we can reduce the urge to keep checking social media and binge watching videos would be good. You can't control everything but the probability of things in life.

Bon chance!

 

[wwillson]

The real reason landlines are dying is because phone companies and local governments have tried to make exorbitant profits off them and inversely have been killing DSL services in areas where no other real option exists.

...and I thought it was because technology had left analog services in the dust of time.

16 of the last 20 years AT&T has actually made more profits on landlines than cellular. The strange dichotomy is that anywhere there is cellular there is most certainly landline to the towers as satellite links are expensive

You have to be careful what you believe. The investment into cellular is massive, making taxable profits smaller. The real EBITA profit on cellular is massive, which the real EBITA profit on land lines is almost insignificant.

 

[4WD]

There are two copper lines attached to my house even though I had the high voltage line buried many years ago …
These lines have stood the test of vines … !

 

[Rmay635703]

...and I thought it was because technology had left analog services in the dust of time.


You have to be careful what you believe. The investment into cellular is massive, making taxable profits smaller. The real EBITA profit on cellular is massive, which the real EBITA profit on land lines is almost insignificant.

There is no indication that what you are calling investment isn’t actually a continuous and unending maintenance cost associated with cellular technology (mandatory obsolescence).

Due to being a technology product there will never be a 100% buildout as there was with landlines, instead cellular technology with have to be maintained in a fashion similar to highway with a much faster age out period.

Because the investment can never stop, it is incorrect to assume that there will ever be a stable profit level for the various competitors as there was/is with landlines.

 

[wwillson]

There is no indication that what you are calling investment isn’t actually a continuous and unending maintenance cost associated with cellular technology (mandatory obsolescence).

You are completely correct, but if one company stops upgrading radios and supporting infrastructure, then they will be obsoleted by those companies that do. It's an invest or die industry.

Due to being a technology product there will never be a 100% buildout as there was with landlines, instead cellular technology with have to be maintained in a fashion similar to highway with a much faster age out period.

There never was a complete build out with the TDM network. In the 80s you were cool with a 9.6 leased line, then came the 56k DDS, 1.54Mb/s T1s, 45Mb/s T3s, 155Mb/s OC-3s, 622Mb/s OC-12s, and on and on all the way to OC-768. Today OC-768 is completely obsolete and it's slow at only 40Gb/s. The march for more speed was continuous, however in the carrier network, TDM is DEAD, it's over, lights out. No Carrier installs TDM anymore. The world has moved on to Ethernet and segments of that network get upgraded every day, this will continue for as long as consumers use data. More investing or death. It never stops.

 

[PandaBear]

There is no indication that what you are calling investment isn’t actually a continuous and unending maintenance cost associated with cellular technology (mandatory obsolescence).

Due to being a technology product there will never be a 100% buildout as there was with landlines, instead cellular technology with have to be maintained in a fashion similar to highway with a much faster age out period.

Because the investment can never stop, it is incorrect to assume that there will ever be a stable profit level for the various competitors as there was/is with landlines.

There is no forever profit in technology, or real estate after you factor in the risk. Nothing grows forever without getting risky or getting dividend forever without getting obsoleted.

Regarding to landline, it is over because of the technology couldn't keep up. In noise cancellation twist pair cannot compete with coaxial cable at the higher and higher frequency. Copper distance has been reduced over time with those "lawn fridge" like utility box and the fiber pushed further and further out to replace the twist pair copper.

One day cable would be the same, they may gradually reduce the distance with fiber and before that, coaxial cable can handle more noise, hence higher frequency for cable internet, and higher speed.

Cellular is a different technology to compete with cable monopoly. With large urban cities with lots of fiber and cable internet deployment, the need for higher frequency cellular like mmWave on 5G is less, but for a lot of people who is stuck with cable monopoly, 5G is the only cheap alternative instead of fiber.

Starlink is actually what would lift the rural world out to the internet age, and people can really finally start living wherever they want and not worry about working from home with no internet.

 

[4WD]

There is no forever profit in technology, or real estate after you factor in the risk. Nothing grows forever without getting risky or getting dividend forever without getting obsoleted.

Regarding to landline, it is over because of the technology couldn't keep up. In noise cancellation twist pair cannot compete with coaxial cable at the higher and higher frequency. Copper distance has been reduced over time with those "lawn fridge" like utility box and the fiber pushed further and further out to replace the twist pair copper.

One day cable would be the same, they may gradually reduce the distance with fiber and before that, coaxial cable can handle more noise, hence higher frequency for cable internet, and higher speed.

Cellular is a different technology to compete with cable monopoly. With large urban cities with lots of fiber and cable internet deployment, the need for higher frequency cellular like mmWave on 5G is less, but for a lot of people who is stuck with cable monopoly, 5G is the only cheap alternative instead of fiber.

Starlink is actually what would lift the rural world out to the internet age, and people can really finally start living wherever they want and not worry about working from home with no internet.

For example - I live in a small town - only in city limits bcs the area was annexed (crops, cows, cell tower 1/4 mile away) - and two competing companies have run fiber to us …