AT&T looking to end copper landline phone service in California

[y_p_w]

We had AT&T service at our current home for a few years before switching our service to a VoIP service and then cutting that. However, they’re still the phone service provider of last resort where there may not be easy internet access for VoIP and/or cellular coverage is poor. I’m thinking that this goes back to when Pacific Telephone was part of the Bell System as a regulated monopoly that had to lay lines for everyone.

“Don’t let them drop us!” Landline users protest AT&T copper retirement plan

California hears protests as AT&T seeks end to Carrier of Last Resort obligation.

arstechnica.com

 

[eljefino]

A vestige back to when we as a society thought to look out for all our neighbors.

 

[spackard]

Thanks. I’ve been getting the notices but it’s the “carrier of last resort” part I didn’t understand.

 

[PandaBear]

The cost per user goes up very fast on technologies with reducing user base. I would imagine right now only really old people in urban area would actually want copper line. That technologies has such a limitation that they can no longer afford to deploy unless it is with some fiber internet service to your building. However if you only order copper and they have to either keep your copper line or run a fiber to your house anyways, they will be money losing.

 

[daves87rs]

It goes nationwide by the end of the year. They have been planning this for 5 years now….no one should be surprised….

 

[y_p_w]

The cost per user goes up very fast on technologies with reducing user base. I would imagine right now only really old people in urban area would actually want copper line. That technologies has such a limitation that they can no longer afford to deploy unless it is with some fiber internet service to your building. However if you only order copper and they have to either keep your copper line or run a fiber to your house anyways, they will be money losing.

I remember hearing years ago that there was supposed to be some sort of transition to fiber for "plain old telephone service" but that it converted to copper wires just before reaching the customer. Obviously these days the amount of data that can be transmitted on fiber or even coax cable is far more than a single wire in a bundle to the customer.

But the issue here is that some phone carriers/providers are designated as "carrier of last resort" meaning that they are required by law to provide service to anyone in their designated service area. And the big thing is rural customers where I'm think there might not be that much interest in providing coax cable or fiber where the costs are prohibitive compared to the potential revenue.

AT&T Applications Regarding COLR and ETC Designation

www.cpuc.ca.gov

What is a COLR?​

A COLR is a telecommunications service provider that stands ready to provide basic telephone service, commonly landline telephone service, to any customer requesting such service within a specified area. At least one telephone company in a specified area is legally required to provide access to telephone service to anyone in its service territory who requests it. This is known as the Carrier of Last Resort (COLR) obligation, which ensures that everyone in California has access to safe, reliable, and affordable telephone service. AT&T is the designated COLR in many parts of the state and is the largest COLR in California. Where AT&T is the default landline telephone service provider means that the company must provide traditional landline telephone service to any potential customer in that service territory. AT&T is proposing to withdraw as the COLR in your area without a new carrier being designated as a COLR.​

 

[spackard]

The cost per user goes up very fast on technologies with reducing user base. I would imagine right now only really old people in urban area would actually want copper line. That technologies has such a limitation that they can no longer afford to deploy unless it is with some fiber internet service to your building. However if you only order copper and they have to either keep your copper line or run a fiber to your house anyways, they will be money losing.

Or I’ve had way too many outages with AT&T to ever trust them with more than POTS.
Their idea of high-speed is FTTN, meaning copper to the house. They did a crap job with DSL, why anybody would pay them for VHDSL is beyond comprehension. Almost 30 years they’ve had.
The stock is more turnip than peach, also.

 

[hrv]

It goes nationwide by the end of the year. They have been planning this for 5 years now….no one should be surprised….

A few years ago they installed fiber in my area . I was still on cooper with ATT. I had to switch over last year because the cooper wire was to be shut down...for good... I asked the guy that you have a lot of cooper under the ground..Whay are you going to do with it??? He told me nothing as it would not be worth it to remove..even with the cost of cooper...

 

[skyactiv]

Panasonic has has cell phones that link to one’s cellphone with Bluetooth. It’s a set up once and forget for the most part. So you can leave home with your cell phone and when you get back home, your cell connects to the cordless phone with no input needed. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/panaso...system-metallic-black/6122205.p?skuId=6122205

 

[JTK]

Is there anyone who still uses a twisted pair old school landline anymore? Even all the older people I know with land lines still, are using their Internet provider and not an actual phone line.

 

[mk378]

Back in the day, phone and cable companies were allowed to exist as monopolies with the restriction that they could not cherry-pick the places that were most profitable to wire. They had to offer service to everyone everywhere, at the same price.

Now a landline phone is something that few people even want, but it's still important if its the only phone service that you can get. The company should have to prove that a viable alternative such as cable, fiber, or a usable indoors cell signal exists in all areas that they are going to disconnect though. The government holds some leverage here and could use this to force improvements to the modern networks in rural areas.

 

[mccandish]

Is there anyone who still uses a twisted pair old school landline anymore? Even all the older people I know with land lines still, are using their Internet provider and not an actual phone line.

Two weeks ago, I ported a number for an elderly relative from copper POTS (at roughly $60 per month) to a cell phone provider (at less than $20). So, yes, they still exist.

 

[oldgrayman]

When our house flooded in 2016 it required a gut job . I didn't bother with the copper phone wires running through the house . I dropped my landline service and never looked back .

 

[tbm5690]

When our house flooded in 2016 it required a gut job . I didn't bother with the copper phone wires running through the house . I dropped my landline service and never looked back .

I blank plated all the phone jacks in my house when I was replacing all the face plates. I'm assuming new builds don't have phone jacks anymore, or if anything just one at most in the kitchen? Even that seems unnecessary.

 

[PandaBear]

To be honest with Starlink being ready these days there is no reason people cannot get VoIP even in remote area now. If I understand correctly this is probably the last mile that would reach almost everyone.

Subsidizing it for just voice would be something that can be done, and many would likely pay for higher speed to make it profitable.

 

[JustinH]

i manage a bunch of facilities, we still use them on elevator phones, fire alarms, etc.

 

[eljefino]

Back in the day, phone and cable companies were allowed to exist as monopolies with the restriction that they could not cherry-pick the places that were most profitable to wire. They had to offer service to everyone everywhere, at the same price.

Now a landline phone is something that few people even want, but it's still important if its the only phone service that you can get. The company should have to prove that a viable alternative such as cable, fiber, or a usable indoors cell signal exists in all areas that they are going to disconnect though. The government holds some leverage here and could use this to force improvements to the modern networks in rural areas.

And the government GAVE the phone company (it was just one at the time) subsidies to build out their network. Look at the bomb-proof fortresses at the base of the old "Long Lines" microwave relay stations. People forgot that we, ourselves, own a part of the "Baby Bells" and they still need to do our bidding. This is no different than requiring mail service to every address, or a school bus route.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

The Post Office and school busses are government entities. It is very different. I hate AT&T, but forcing a private company to continue a non-profitable service isn't something that strikes me as legal.
It's a service who's time has come. And gone. If they abandon service, though, they should have to give up the easements and existing wire if any other company is willing to continue servicing land lines.

 

[PandaBear]

You can't force a business into a money losing deal forever. In the end it is really an economy of scale problem and there are ways to solve it. The problem would likely be a few people need them, and they could be done with other mean (i.e. Starlink or Satellite phone then go into a local landline right outside the house, with battery backup).

The landscape for landline phone is very different today than 20 years ago. If they really want just a phone service they can get it with other mean than copper landline, and that new solution likely comes with TCP/IP and can be used as high speed internet as well.

 

[mrsilv04]

Is there anyone who still uses a twisted pair old school landline anymore? Even all the older people I know with land lines still, are using their Internet provider and not an actual phone line.

My internet is delivered via copper pair on AT&T. My home (built in 1996) has never had coax or fiber running to it. Only copper pair.
It isn't lightning fast, but it is more than fast enough to work from home on, for the past 4 years.
A couple of summers back, they ran fiber through my front yard. I plan to switch over to it once the ground thaws in about 6-8 weeks, and they can bury a line up to the house. No need to have it installed now, just so the rabbits and squirrels can chew on it until the ground thaws.
I would have gone to the fiber before now, but they were horrible when they buried the fiber. They tore the entire neighborhood up, installed the cable, and then walked away from their mess.