As promised I'm back on 20wt oil

[Trav]

Originally Posted by StevieC
As promised I have gone back to 20wt oil. I will keep it here for the duration of the Caravan's life.

It has 23K KM (14K miles). It was run on 30wt oil for 10K KM (6K miles) of that as I was testing oil quietness on an engine that originally was spec'ed for a 30wt not because I was looking for higher HTHS rating.

The oil I'm using is Amsoil 0w20 SS with a HTHS of 2.67.

I will drive the van until it's no longer safe to drive and will repair the transmission if it goes down the road so I can keep the engine test running.
(I'm capable of rebuilding myself)



How is this a test? Do you have a like vehicle and engine running the similar conditions with another oil in it?
How do you know the engine would not last longer with the xw30? You don't, total waste of time as far as a "test" goes IMO, so what the point? I promise to go back to 0w40 that it ran on for 20 years when my stash of 0w30 LX runs out. LOL

 

[JC1]

Stevie, I'm going the other way and switching from 5W-20 to 5w30 in my Caravan at least for the summer OC.

 

[MrWideTires]

Honestly... most motors will run forever on any oil lol.

My dad ran his b13 Sentra on 20w50 its whole life.. sold it with 350k kilometers and the new owner is still driving it.. its gotta have over 400k now.

On the other side of the spectrum... I had a b15 Sentra SpecV track car, modified and running 0w20 (called for 5w30).... yes I raced the car with thinner oil.. and I raced it HARD, this car was hit 11 times and the frame pulled twice.
I sold it with 150k miles and it burned zero oil.. that was in 2012, I still see that car driving around and I met the owner 2 years ago, it has the original motor and he drives it hard still.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by StevieC
As promised I have gone back to 20wt oil. I will keep it here for the duration of the Caravan's life.

It has 23K KM (14K miles). It was run on 30wt oil for 10K KM (6K miles) of that as I was testing oil quietness on an engine that originally was spec'ed for a 30wt not because I was looking for higher HTHS rating.

The oil I'm using is Amsoil 0w20 SS with a HTHS of 2.67.

I will drive the van until it's no longer safe to drive and will repair the transmission if it goes down the road so I can keep the engine test running.
(I'm capable of rebuilding myself)



How is this a test? Do you have a like vehicle and engine running the similar conditions with another oil in it?
How do you know the engine would not last longer with the xw30? You don't, total waste of time as far as a "test" goes IMO, so what the point? I promise to go back to 0w40 that it ran on for 20 years when my stash of 0w30 LX runs out. LOL

It was brought up previously that optimal would be HTHS of 3.5 and I argued that 2.6 found in 20wt oils makes no difference in the real world that can be realized in normal applications that spec it. So I decided to go back to a 20wt to prove it in the real world.

Whether you choose to agree with it doesn't matter and you can find whatever faults that help you sleep at night.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by JC1
Stevie, I'm going the other way and switching from 5W-20 to 5w30 in my Caravan at least for the summer OC.

Maybe we can compare piles of miles later if you still have it then.

 

[Uphill_Both_Ways]

If I have to get another car, I'll have to start worrying about using 20 oil again, I suppose.

I bought a 2003 Malibu when the Roadmonster's transmission died, and it specified 5W20, which I used. It was an all-around lemon, aside from the endemic 3.1-litre intake manifold problem which was fixed on warranty — unlike the peeling paint. An exhaust valve decided to go on hiatus in the Malibu. A mechanic blamed it on the 5W20.

I dumped that POS for the Impala, now peacefully reposing in the back yard with a busted transmission. If I end up with another car that specifies 20 weight, but 30 weight everywhere outside of North America, what then?

How could "they" tell if I used 5W30? I'd ask the oil-filter genie because he knows everything (Stevie grabbed a pic of him — scroll down), but he works for GM and I want a six-speed Civic.

 

[Nederlander75]

Originally Posted by StevieC
As promised I have gone back to 20wt oil. I will keep it here for the duration of the Caravan's life.

It has 23K KM (14K miles). It was run on 30wt oil for 10K KM (6K miles) of that as I was testing oil quietness on an engine that originally was spec'ed for a 30wt not because I was looking for higher HTHS rating.

The oil I'm using is Amsoil 0w20 SS with a HTHS of 2.67.

I will drive the van until it's no longer safe to drive and will repair the transmission if it goes down the road so I can keep the engine test running.
(I'm capable of rebuilding myself)



0w20's the Devil.

 

[StevieC]

^^^^

like the Devils Lettuce? (Mary-J)

 

[Trav]

My question is how do you quantify the results? Its a serious question not a shot, If it goes 300K on one oil how do you determine what would have happened with a different oil that's all.
No doubt it will live a long life but as long, longer or shorter than with another oil. That's why I asked how is this a test?

 

[tiger862]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Out doing groceries and stuff and I'm waiting for my spouse at one store so I thought I'd check in.

Yes the engine noise is better with 30wt but not a whole lot and it's the whine that the engine makes while driving that's quieter nothing like lifters etc.

The 20wt is equally as smooth as the 30wt. I think Amsoils 0w20 and 0w30 is the two smoothest oils I've used out of the whole signature series line. Even though it rarely gets cold enough here to justify a 0 over the 5 I use it because of this reason.


Mine had whine but I thought it was differential. Changed oil at 4500 with Napa synthetic blend 5w20 noise went away and still gone at 7500 miles. Coincidental or not it is (was) nothing for me to worry about.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by Trav
My question is how do you quantify the results? Its a serious question not a shot, If it goes 300K on one oil how do you determine what would have happened with a different oil that's all.
No doubt it will live a long life but as long, longer or shorter than with another oil. That's why I asked how is this a test?


It's anecdotal and 1 case but surely if wear was such a big difference between 20wt and 40wt it will show up in this long long run.

Is there a minuscule almost undetectable amount of wear that happens using a 20wt versus a thicker oil, yeah, but does it mean anything in the real world in terms of longevity both for a normal lifespan of an engine for the average user and for those like me that drive the vehicles until the wheels fall off? No it doesn't, and I hope to be another high mileage case that proves it like others here have already.

No need to step up in viscosity to get a higher HTHS than the OE calls for, or read owners manuals from other countries in fear that you are killing your engine earlier than it needs to be as seems to be the misconception here by users that read the information that folks like Shannow post about optimal HTHS, and as a result start to think early death is coming to their engines if they don't find an oil that is way better than the CAFE 20wt at 2.6 HTHS.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by StevieC

It was brought up previously that optimal would be HTHS of 3.5 and I argued that 2.6 found in 20wt oils makes no difference in the real world that can be realized in normal applications that spec it. So I decided to go back to a 20wt to prove it in the real world.


Why do you continually argue against arguments that people SIMPLY DIDN'T MAKE ???

Oh...it adds to the drama and the Galileo complex...

 

[Trav]

I cant speak for Shannow but I understand where he is coming from. A lot of people on this board read about all the amazing things xw20 was and decided to try in vehicles that should really not be using it, they were not designed for anything with HTHS that low.
He can correct me if I am wrong but I think all he is saying is if you look at how the engine is built you can get a pretty good idea of what the optimal HTHS should be and its also true that some manufacturers toss the dice when recommending it for some of their engines.

IMO if an engine was previously recommended for xw30 and nothing changed internally or in its lubrication system and now claims xw20 than I think there is a good chance it is really not optimal for that particular engine. With your particular engine I really have no idea what is optimal, I mean something as small as a different finish on the crank can change things, that would possibly go unnoticed in the parts list or comparisons.

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by JC1
Stevie, I'm going the other way and switching from 5W-20 to 5w30 in my Caravan at least for the summer OC.

Maybe we can compare piles of miles later if you still have it then.

Sure but I'm only putting about 15-17,000 km a year on mine.

 

[StevieC]

JC1 my dad will end before yours for sure but we can wait until you catch up to compare if you intend to own it that long.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by StevieC

It was brought up previously that optimal would be HTHS of 3.5 and I argued that 2.6 found in 20wt oils makes no difference in the real world that can be realized in normal applications that spec it. So I decided to go back to a 20wt to prove it in the real world.


Why do you continually argue against arguments that people SIMPLY DIDN'T MAKE ???

Oh...it adds to the drama and the Galileo complex...

I'm not getting into it again with you. Threads are here for folks to read where I said what I thought...

 

[Shannow]

you made a statement that you were in disagreement with someone stating that "optimal" was over 3.5, now won't engage into where that statement was made ?

Arguing with self generated strawmen adds to your drama, but not the truth of your position.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by Trav
I cant speak for Shannow but I understand where he is coming from. A lot of people on this board read about all the amazing things xw20 was and decided to try in vehicles that should really not be using it, they were not designed for anything with HTHS that low.
He can correct me if I am wrong but I think all he is saying is if you look at how the engine is built you can get a pretty good idea of what the optimal HTHS should be and its also true that some manufacturers toss the dice when recommending it for some of their engines.

IMO if an engine was previously recommended for xw30 and nothing changed internally or in its lubrication system and now claims xw20 than I think there is a good chance it is really not optimal for that particular engine. With your particular engine I really have no idea what is optimal, I mean something as small as a different finish on the crank can change things, that would possibly go unnoticed in the parts list or comparisons.

Yeah in the situations where folks are using a 20wt in an application that was designed for 30 or 40 I agree that's silly and going to lead to problems. As for using it in my application that had a 30wt originally I think they did their homework on my particular engine before saying it was rated for a 20wt considering how long the PentaStar engine was going to be around and how many vehicles they were going to use it in or they wouldn't have said it and left it at a 30wt.

I also see no indication in the used oil analysis here (my family included) that shows 20wt is a problem in these engines in the range that they can see. Time will tell and I hope to be part of that for this one engine.

Heading out for the night... Check back tomorrow.

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted by StevieC
JC1 my dad will end before yours for sure but we can wait until you catch up to compare if you intend to own it that long.


I usually keep my vehicles +10 years. Civic is ours from new 22 years old now. The only thing that may make be sell this sooner would be gas prices. But the utility of a van is the main reason I own one.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by StevieC

No need to step up in viscosity to get a higher HTHS than the OE calls for

I've have never seen a manufacturer specify a HTHS? I looked all over today for a paper about HTHS. Anyway, the paper stated that American manufacturers and engine builders shoot for an optimum of 2.9 to 3.2. This was for big iron engines, not like the ones we see today but I like to use that as a good matrix. Below 2.9 big end bearings suffered from adequate protection and above 3.2 created too much drag.