Kinda relevant.
Are winter tires "worth it"?
- Thread starter Ws6
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Kinda relevant.
I really like tyrereview's channel...that's a good one I've watched before. My own experience keeping my summers (Conti ECS02) past when I should have switched to my "winters" (for me here my PSAS4) in 40 deg F cold wet showed the same...extended braking/crappy traction.
Also these videos are pretty good ones for this discussion and the TR one includes the U.S.-based tires where the other doesn't include the performance all seasons we get here:
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I was up skiing at Winter Park on Tuesday and Thursday. I was at work on Wednesday.
I’m at home in Virginia Beach now. Got home Friday night.
The snow was on Wednesday.
We had about a foot in our neighborhood. Really shut things down for a couple days. It’s warm now and most of it has melted.
I’ve got a set of dedicated snows for the car in Colorado. I think it’s foolish for anyone who drives in the metro or front range area, as well as anyone who drives in the mountains, to do otherwise.
For Virginia Beach, snow happens every couple of years. Generally, we know it’s coming and I simply don’t go out. Not because I can’t handle it, but because the number of bozos on the road is truly astounding.
The Michelin LTX tires on the Tundra, and the Nokian all weather tires on the Volvo, handle snow pretty well. They are nothing like a dedicated winter tire - like the Blizzaks - but they’re not bad.
Certainly they’re not dangerous in the snow, like a lot of the tires I see on cars down here.
Not a typical look in our neighborhood…
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4WD
$50 site donor 2025
I was given a rent car in Canada - in winter - that had worn out tires.
Took a taxi for a day whilst they installed winter tires that added about 50% to the day rate LoL …
Rentals seem quite logical to care about tires, oh well …
I used to get a rental car about twice a month up in Burlington Vermont.
There were several times when I walked back into the Hertz counter and asked for a different car, because worn all season tires just are not a good idea where it snows…
In January 2001, I happened to land in Burlington during a pretty good snowstorm.
They had upgraded me to something like a mercury grand marquis, and parked next to it in the president circle in the Hertz part of the parking garage, was a brand new Volvo V 70 cross country. A car I had not seen before.
I walked back into the counter, and inquired, “how much for the Volvo?”
$20 more for the weekend. I rented it on the spot, and was genuinely impressed with the all-wheel-drive in the snow. The car had only 1000 miles on it, and the brand new all season tires were adequate in the snow.
One thing I noticed about all-wheel-drive, because it was the first all-wheel-drive car I had driven in heavy snow, was that the all-wheel-drive traction on acceleration, frequently masked how bad the road surface was.
Several times, because the car accelerated so easily, I found myself having difficulty stopping.
It turns out - I was attuned to having a rear wheel drive car, and I gauged the traction, perhaps subconsciously, by the amount of wheel spin, or slip, during acceleration. And set my speed accordingly.
But this all-wheel-drive little Volvo just accelerated so well on hard pack, in deep snow, and ice, that I did not have a feel for how crummy the roads actually were.
I think that is why I used to see so many crashed all-wheel-drive vehicles in Vermont. People step on the gas and the car just goes, so they think the roads are pretty good, or that their all-wheel-drive is somehow magical.
But when they step on the brake pedal…
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
I always rent AWD up north - mainly bcs I have to be at work very early when it’s just the snowplowing gang out … Will definitely fool you …
The key here is - YOU control the friction circle so yes, you can drive in snow with all seasons but you have to respect the friction circle with your inputs b/c the available traction is more limited - just like driving on the track in the rain on non-rain tires. These threads go on and on about the type of tires and drive systems but in the end, the part that is critical is the nut behind the wheel driving within the limits of the equipment regardless of what kind it is. Yes, winter tires in snow (duh) are the obvious safest choice but plenty of folks drive in occasional winter conditions without them and somehow continue to avoid crashing b/c they adjust their driving to the equipment/conditions that determine how much traction for stopping (primiarly) is available. Winter tires alone aren't what magically allows everyone not to crash...plenty of crashes happen with folks on winter tires I'm quite sure. There is no reason to spend money on a set of winters for a few snow days a year that is all a large portion of the U.S. ever sees Take a training day on a skid pad...far cheaper and more beneficial overall to learn to drive at the limit and how to correct etc. in low-traction conditions vs. an expensive set of tires/wheels that will probalby sit and collect dust and time-out for most folks before they ever get much use out of them. Nobody ever recommends it. I took my 15 yo out in our small snow a few weeks ago to a parking lot (we only got 2-3") and let him slide around. He will never have winter tires if he stays in VA so may as well figure out how to slide and stop without them b/c that's what we work with here. He'll get some skidpad and track training when he gets his DL next year.Gotta remember the friction circle when choosing/using tires, they are your only connection to the road. Wanna turn? can't be using much acceleration or braking friction. Wanna brake? shouldn't be turning too much and eating up available friction. Tires not giving a lot of friction, or weather is causing less friction? Well, something has to give. You can bend the laws of physics, but not break them. All basic stuff.
When I lived in NoVA. we would get some some pretty substantial snows. Had a single cab, rear wheel drive Tacoma 5 spd that was the absolute best snow machine around. November it got some tall, skinny Hakkapalitias and about 300lbs. of bagged sand in the bed. Would go anywhere. April it got the wide Nittos back and lost the sand. It would take turns and stick like nobody's business. Always a fan of dressing for the weather and that included a dedicated tire "wardrobe". Friction. It's a good thing.
1965-2007. Driving years started in 1978. And we've had some storms that were pretty good for snow and stuck around a while. I remember the storms in 1993 and 1996 where we got several feet. Work sent the National Guard out with Humvees to get all of us "essential emergency personnel". Since we couldn't get home, we partied, er, stayed in, several local hotels until the streets became passable again. And I bought dedicated winters for the Taco because a 2400lbs. (most being well forward) RWD truck doesn't do so good without some help. It was amazing what that thing transformed into with proper tires.
Well said, however, even if it was just 1 day that I could get through all the areas of lesser traction and not crash, when I HAD to go to work, was worth the price of admission for the dedicated winter tires. I got 6 seasons out of 1 set of the Hakkas and kept me out of the ditches. Money well spent in my book.
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Yup. If I lived in an area not used to snow ( every few years ) , I would stay off the roads because of the traffic jams or increased risk of being rear ended.
Even in places used to snow, it’s a big problem but we drive.
Even in places used to snow, it’s a big problem but we drive.
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I was in college at that time in Fredericksburg for the one in '93 then for the '96 one drove from Virginia Beach to Fredericksburg after it to see my (now) wife. I remember those both vivadly! I had a '89 Subaru 4x4 GL wagon at the time...BFG Radial TAs...no matter...handled that snow like a boss. In fact my car was the beer-mobile for the '93 storm b/c I was the only one that could get out/around. In '96, I remember driving on 64 up towards Richmond and the entire road has snow on it so you just saw tracks! I think we are for the most part passed those type of events in this region but maybe I'm wrong, my folks got 11" in VB last week which is quite a lot/rare. I also recall a huge storm when I lived in southern NJ in 1999 and I had my '92 Toyota 4x4 truck with 31" all-terrains. I had sand in the back so I can relate! So fun to drdive that truck in those condition...I had to work/drive offroad that day and again, only one that seemed to be able to manage it.
It's just a risk-based decision. Here, the main roads would be clear the next day so you always have to consider the top of the risk pyramid w/r to controls....just eliminate the risk all together if you don't have dedicated winter tires. Most folks will survive a few days at home if they can do it vs. all the fuss with separate wheels/tires for a few days at most a year. I just think back to 36 years of driving in the mid-Atlantic area including ski trips in the mountains etc. and never considering that winter tires were necessary to get out/around with a bit more care w/r to driving/traction.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Who took off snow tires in Colorado?
I wait until the end of April to take mine off. They’re still on the V70R at the moment. There are a couple more days left in the ski season.
Might need them!
Patman
Staff member
It’s always best to err on the side of caution when it comes to taking off your snow tires. It seems like a lot of people are anxious to put their summer tires on at the first sign of spring but forget the fact that there are always some storms that happen even after you have gotten a few 70 degree days. It happens every year. And it’s not as if your snow tires are going to wear out massively just because you might put 1000 miles on them in 60-70 degree weather either. So just keep them on until May 1st to be safe.
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If one notices these debates, never is it about marginal benefit. There’s always an assumption that all have significant resources and are looking to find new ways to spend. I’d rather put my money where my mouth is. Living in SE PA, I haven’t even put the snows on in 4 years. 8 rims/snows are in the shed. We don’t get snow anymore.
Are they worth it? Yes, if you drive in snow. If you’re like we are, with snows, you sacrifice performance, cost, and safety, driving around in rain and on dry pavement. Suddenly it would seem cars with summer only tires should switch to a high performance all season (not all weather) for temps below 37F. Or, don’t, and just don’t drive when below 40F.
Are they worth it? Yes, if you drive in snow. If you’re like we are, with snows, you sacrifice performance, cost, and safety, driving around in rain and on dry pavement. Suddenly it would seem cars with summer only tires should switch to a high performance all season (not all weather) for temps below 37F. Or, don’t, and just don’t drive when below 40F.
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Tires are the cheapest form of life insurance.
Still have them on both the Abarth and the Stelvio.
My wife won't let me buy a set of wheels and tires for the Cayman.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I keep on Toyota and VW until May bcs. precisely this.
Tell her that she’s starting to sound like your ex wife.
