Are winter tires "worth it"?

[Pew]

IMO: Conti dws arent "good all seasons" they are good for a UHP in the snow.
Conti lx25 are good all-season tires.

In most winter weather situations, winter tires provide better predictable handling.

It's been a long time since I've used conti. The dws was the last ones I've used but for 2014, they weren't too bad compared to the Michelin Alpine PA3 that I had at the time. My sister has the PureContacts and those were good in the snow and the reason why I decided to try out the TrueContactTours now.

I still use blizzaks for the winter but I'm willing to try out these TCTs in the snow.

 

[supton]

I think so, but in my case, not all my cars “need” them. Most storms, most of us stay home (school cancels, WFH). And much of the winter has clean dry roads. But it is nice having on at least one. And when I did have to commute every day, the difference was noticeable.

Couple years ago I took the wifes car out in snow. My car had some old snows on it, hers some pretty new a/s. Realized very quickly the difference!

 

[Ranger83]

So how often do you drive on snowy or slushy roads?
In 2019 I picked Xice2's for the Outback as they are a good wet or dry highway tire, and counted on the AWD to make sure I never got stuck, but at 225 width they turned out to be fairly terrible in something like 1" of slush, just hydroplane compared to the more aggressive and open tread snow tires I've had. At -5C and below on hard packed almost icy snow, they work very well, but you will almost never see that.
Continental viking 7's come in a lot of 16 and 17 inch sizes, and some in XL so you could get quite a narrow tire with enough load rating to be legal.

Nokian talks about “slushplaning.” And tests for it.

 

[IndyIan]

His approach is too academic. I mean, he does not have the resources to do actual tests.
But, what is very often lost in these discussions, whether you need or not winter tire, is cornering. A lot of accidents, I would say close behind accidents caused by poor braking performance in slick, is caused by loss of control during cornering due to low grip.

Yep, if you are paying attention, you can almost always avoid a true panic stop. But a couple times I have been totally surprised by a driver entering my lane, it was being able to turn that avoided an accident, as braking alone wasn't going to help.

 

[edyvw]

Yep, if you are paying attention, you can almost always avoid a true panic stop. But a couple times I have been totally surprised by a driver entering my lane, it was being able to turn that avoided an accident, as braking alone wasn't going to help.

That and unpredictable conditions. Curves in the shadow. Couple of years ago I was behind of, I think, KIA Forte or something like that with GA license plates. Spring brake, car full of gear, probably drove from GA to ski at A-Basin (lot’s of folks does that during spring break). We were going over Loveland Pass and started to descend towards A-Basin. That pass is treacherous on its own, and add hazardous cargo that circumvent Eisenhower tunnel (gas trucks etc.) bcs. they cannot go through it.
The guy was going, I would say, normal speed for someone not familiar with road. Dry! He enters the curve, some leftover snow, some ice, and he just slides toward his left, rear end trying to overtake front. From other direction comes that off-road MB Sprinter, and absolutely obliterates half of that KIA. I didn’t have any issues stopping once I hit that patch of snow and ice.
They were OK. MB hit behind B pillar. But they were flying back home.

 

[IndyIan]

That and unpredictable conditions. Curves in the shadow. Couple of years ago I was behind of, I think, KIA Forte or something like that with GA license plates. Spring brake, car full of gear, probably drove from GA to ski at A-Basin (lot’s of folks does that during spring break). We were going over Loveland Pass and started to descend towards A-Basin. That pass is treacherous on its own, and add hazardous cargo that circumvent Eisenhower tunnel (gas trucks etc.) bcs. they cannot go through it.
The guy was going, I would say, normal speed for someone not familiar with road. Dry! He enters the curve, some leftover snow, some ice, and he just slides toward his left, rear end trying to overtake front. From other direction comes that off-road MB Sprinter, and absolutely obliterates half of that KIA. I didn’t have any issues stopping once I hit that patch of snow and ice.
They were OK. MB hit behind B pillar. But they were flying back home.

Yeah, stuff like that is why you run winter tires even if you rarely need them. Also, for the KIA, just leaving some margin for the unexpected, and scrubbing a bit of speed on the dry pavement when they saw the snow. Easier to say than always do, but if I'm on 4th season snow tires(or all seasons) and see snow/slush in a curve ahead, I'm slowing down before the curve, so I'm not using 80-90% of my grip just cornering, as I may need to brake, or adjust my line to find some grip, and I don't want to swap ends!

 

[edyvw]

Yeah, stuff like that is why you run winter tires even if you rarely need them. Also, for the KIA, just leaving some margin for the unexpected, and scrubbing a bit of speed on the dry pavement when they saw the snow. Easier to say than always do, but if I'm on 4th season snow tires(or all seasons) and see snow/slush in a curve ahead, I'm slowing down before the curve, so I'm not using 80-90% of my grip just cornering, as I may need to brake, or adjust my line to find some grip, and I don't want to swap ends!

In their defense, it was really hard to spot. Shade, not large area. They could anticipate, but then experience? Having winter tires could allow ESP to does its thing.

 

[notgetleft]

If / when i've had to drive in snow and inclement weather on semi regular basis, i had a spare set of wheels with dedicated snows that went on for winter. Made a huge difference.

 

[userfriendly]

All weather tires have been a game changer for me! I have been using them on a few of my cars for about ten years now. They are probably 90% as good as a dedicated winter tire, but considerably better than all seasons.

What’s the definition of an all weather tire? I just looked on Kal Tire’s website, in my size, 275/65R20 all of the “all weather” tires carry the 3PMS snow flake symbol which is mandatory on some highways in British Columbia between October and April.
That’s all I buy anyway and when worn down they go on extra wheels for summer use.
After 14 years I’m finally getting a collection of 8x180mm bolt pattern wheels.

 

[camrydriver111]

What’s the definition of an all weather tire? I just looked on Kal Tire’s website, in my size, 275/65R20 all of the “all weather” tires carry the 3PMS snow flake symbol which is mandatory on some highways in British Columbia between October and April.
That’s all I buy anyway and when worn down they go on extra wheels for summer use.
After 14 years I’m finally getting a collection of 8x180mm bolt pattern wheels.

It must have 3PMSF, but isn't marketed as winter.

But since it has 3PMSF it meets the definition of a winter tire, and you can use it places that require winter tires like Quebec.

 

[krzyss]

There is new test and symbol coming for ice traction.
Very likely it will be differentiator between real winters and pretenders.

Krzyś

 

[Ranger83]

What’s the definition of an all weather tire? I just looked on Kal Tire’s website, in my size, 275/65R20 all of the “all weather” tires carry the 3PMS snow flake symbol which is mandatory on some highways in British Columbia between October and April.
That’s all I buy anyway and when worn down they go on extra wheels for summer use.
After 14 years I’m finally getting a collection of 8x180mm bolt pattern wheels.

Nokian invented them some years ago.

Winter tires are not required to have a UTQC rating.
Winter tires have the 3PMSF rating.
All Weather tires have both.

The Alps have winter tire requirements above certain elevations, and cars may have to drive many hours on autobahns to get there. This resulted in “Performance Winter” and “All Weather” tires.l

There are other differences as the all-weather has to have better performance outside snow and ice conditions.

Put Nokian WRG2’s on my 2009 WRX and several other cars.

WRG2 left, Haakapelliita R right.

L

 

[Ranger83]

Posted in another thread but FYI seems everyone has extended their winter tires rebates into November.

Bridgestone - $80.
Continental - $110.
Cooper - $50.
Firestone - $50.
Goodyear - $100.
Hankook - $80
Michelin - $60.
Nokian - $80.
Pirelli - $80.
Vredestein - $140.

 

[mightymousetech]

I would never even consider using a no-season tire in the winter. I actually run three sets of tires on my daily driver. A summer set, a performance winter set as my intermediates in the spring/fall, and then a very aggressive studded Nokian for the real winter driving.

I don’t have the luxury of staying home when the weather turns to ****, I am expected to be at work, on time, regardless if there is freezing rain, snow or whiteout conditions.

And yes, the studded winters are worth every penny. The car (x-drive BMW) is unstoppable regardless of what’s on the ground. Even glare ice is like dry pavement.

 

[Ranger83]

Posted in another thread but FYI
So - lseems everyone has extended their winter tires rebates into November.

Bridgestone - $80.
Continental - $110.
Cooper - $50.
Firestone - $50.
Goodyear - $100.
Hankook - $80
Michelin - $60.
Nokian - $80.
Pirelli - $80.
Vredestein - $140.

 

[Ranger83]

I would never even consider using a no-season tire in the winter. I actually run three sets of tires on my daily driver. A summer set, a performance winter set as my intermediates in the spring/fall, and then a very aggressive studded Nokian for the real winter driving.

The latest Motor magazine [Norway] test used the Michelin CrossClimate2 as a control. Unsurprisingly, much better performance on dry and wet roads - and much worse performance on snow and ice.

https://www.tire-reviews.com/Article/2024-Nordic-Friction-Winter-Tire-Test.htm

On my WRX also used three sets of tires: Michelin Pilot Sport; Nokian WRG2; and Nokian Hakkapelliita R2’s on 16” wheels.

 

[MrGraybeard]

I remember driving through town near dusk on a sunny winter day. The temp had ventured above freezing but was back below about 30 degrees as the sun set. Pavement looked clear but wet from snowmelt.
I rounded a turn at an intersection and glanced into the rear-view mirror just in time to see the guy behind me go into a spin, jump the curb and hit a light pole. We were probably doing 20 mph. I'm guessing his tires were garbage, but the incident still taught me that conditions can change in an instant without warning in a Wisconsin winter.

 

[Ranger83]

A co-worker had an old Subaru with Nokians in Burlington, VT.

Drove home in freezing rain. Car felt fine.

Got home, opened the door, stepped out of the car - and fell on his butt.

 

[mightymousetech]

The latest Motor magazine [Norway] test used the Michelin CrossClimate2 as a control. Unsurprisingly, much better performance on dry and wet roads - and much worse performance on snow and ice.

https://www.tire-reviews.com/Article/2024-Nordic-Friction-Winter-Tire-Test.htm

Yup. Even Michelin say the Cross Climate is not intended for severe winter conditions.

On my WRX also used three sets of tires: Michelin Pilot Sport; Nokian WRG2; and Nokian Hakkapelliita R2’s on 16” wheels.

Love the WRG’s. Wanted to stay with runflats on my E90, and unfortunately the new WRG5 no longer come in runflat. So I am using Pirelli Sottozero 3 as my intermediates and quite happy with them. Summers are UHP Michelin MXM4, then studded Hakka 10’s for when the weather turns to ****. All tires are runflats.

Nice to see I am not the only tire snob here.

 

[userfriendly]

Nokian invented them some years ago.

Winter tires are not required to have a UTQC rating.
Winter tires have the 3PMSF rating.
All Weather tires have both.

The Alps have winter tire requirements above certain elevations, and cars may have to drive many hours on autobahns to get there. This resulted in “Performance Winter” and “All Weather” tires.l

There are other differences as the all-weather has to have better performance outside snow and ice conditions.

Put Nokian WRG2’s on my 2009 WRX and several other cars.

WRG2 left, Haakapelliita R right.


View attachment 250807L

It would make sense that the all weather tires have a higher speed rating, probably H or better than “winter” tires.
The light truck tires I buy have either a P, Q or R speed rating because of their heavy tread.