Are Pre-Lubers Really Necessary?

[TheLoneRanger]

In reading the posts here about pre-oilers, I'm wondering if they really do reduce start-up wear? Since a good amount of oil sticks to the moving parts after shutdown, and the run-off oil pools at the bottom of bearings, lifters, etc., is additional oil volume really necessary? After all, an oil film is all that is needed to separate the parts until the oil pump starts to build pressure......

It would be interesting to see a UOA done before and after a pre-oiler install, to see if they actually do reduce wear.

 

[mountravlr]

It seems so subjective to think that measurable wear is reduced. It would take a very controlled study to prove objectively that pre-oilers would contribute to the life of an engine. Therefore we resort to logic about lubrication - absent any quantifiable information. Perhaps in a freezing environment, with an engine block heater, it might save cam bearings, etc. on the top end of an engine, maybe even the mains on the low end too. Who knows? One thing for $ure, pre-oilers are good for bu$ine$$.

 

[ruking77]

I would say yes and no. For a snap shot study, You could use a lot of existing baseline UOA's. Retrofit/fit the preoilers and/or bypass oil systems. Do UOA's as per normal. See if the advertised % numbers really affect/effect subsequent UOA's?

So for example in the case of pre oilers, they advertise 50-80% LESS wear due to dry wear using their product. Bypass filters advertise 40%-60% wear due to particulate size. So the operative question is can these items together or separately decrease the wear numbers: by what % both together and/or separately???

[ December 23, 2004, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]

 

[garyb80]

I think it depends on the application. If it is an engine that is run daily or so, it probably isn't feasable. Enough oil stays on the components over night to reduce wear. If it is something like a collector car, an RV, or a emergency generator, that is only fired up every few months, I would say, "heck yea!" Pre lubers also reduce battery drain and starter wear on seldom used engines. They are real popular on marine engines down here on the Gulf Coast.

 

[MolaKule]

A preluber would make more sense if it had a temperature sensor and heat the oil (when cold) as it attempts to circulate it.

I doubt most of these prelubers have the power to push cold oil around the engine at -10 F.

Now the Marine versions probably have a large motor to circulate the oil for prelube, but I doubt the PCMO versions do.

 

[RalphPWood]

If your oil is clean most engine wear is caused

by starting the engine. If the oil is dirty most

engine wear is caused by dirty oil.

Ralph

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by ruking77:
I would say yes and no. For a snap shot study, You could use a lot of existing baseline UOA's. Retrofit/fit the preoilers and/or bypass oil systems. Do UOA's as per normal. See if the advertised % numbers really affect/effect subsequent UOA's?

So for example in the case of pre oilers, they advertise 50-80% LESS wear due to dry wear using their product. Bypass filters advertise 40%-60% wear due to particulate size.

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Then don't use both of them because the resultant negative wear will close up the running clearances.

 

[slalom44]

Is it necessary? In my opinion, no. It's overkill, but you can't argue the logic: Boundary lubrication depends on anti-wear addititives to prevent metal-to-metal contact. With full oil pressure, hydrodynamic lubrication prevents any potential metal-to-metal contact from taking place.

So why do it? Because it is the very best protection you can give your engine (along with a bypass filter), and except for the initial cost, it doesn't cost any more to use. Besides - it makes for great conversation amoung gearheads.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Then don't use both of them because the resultant negative wear will close up the running clearances.

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Between that and full synthetic use ...and various additives ...not only will the EPA regulate you to death ..the massive capital gains from all the value added yield will have you in such a high tax bracket that you'll owe more then you make.

 

[Mike_dup1]

I think they are a good idea and plan to install them in some of my rigs. The lower the quality of oil in use the more this will help in the long run. But engine have survived without them so its a accessory for those who want it. To me it more important than some 1000 watt stereo that will leave you will a hearing impairment problem later in life.

So, its start the engine and wait for the oil pressure to come up OR start the engine with the oil pressure up. The more you start the engine, the more this would be of benefit. How many times in one day does the average person start his engine? Assume they just go to work 5 day a weeks for 50 weeks a year, thats a minimum 250 times not to mention the trips to the store for beer or to walmart to drool over oil and filters.

Here is short avi VEDIO on one in use on a F150

 

[RalphPWood]

I was looking at a booklet on bypass filters from Fleetguard. It reads as follows. "The majority of wear occurs during cold starts. The question is, what is the impact of the add on system on cold start wear?" Although wear points will still have a residual coating of oil even when the sump has been drained during oil change full oil pressure is required to prevent additional wear. The pressure drop associated with the filtration system impact the time it tales for full oil pressure to reach all components."
They go on to say that their bypass filter compared to the full flow filter only gives 30% less wear to the upper conn rod bearing shell 63% less wear to the lower conn rod shell 49% less wear to the upper main bearing shell and 64% less wear to the lower main bearing shell.
Awhile back I put their best bypass filter on a 8.3 Cummins engine in a yard mule. As you might expect I converted the LF 750 housing to take two rolls of Kleenex Viva and three rolls of Scott TP. I am hoping to get 1000 hrs between filter changes with no oil drains. I just got back results from 320 hrs. The oil analysis shows 20 ppm iron, 1 chromium, 1 lead, 2 copper, 0 tin, 2 aluminum, 0 nickel, 0 silver, 4 silicon, 50 boron, 3 sodium, 11 magnesium, 3165, calcium, 1172 phosphorus, 1503 zinc, 42 molybdenum. Fuel (% vol) under .5 water under .1 (% vol), soot under .1 (% vol), glycol neg.
I think this is a good report. This engine gets started a dozen or more times on one shift and works every day spotting trailers. I have a similar report on a 8.3 in a motor home after a trip to Alaska.
I might be wrong but I doubt that the numbers would be a lot better if the engines had a pre oiler. Both engines use Delo 400 15-40.
Using Motor Guards old formula of one hr equals 30 miles 320 hrs would be 9,600 miles. If I can keep the numbers looking good until 1000 hrs I will be happy. I was changing a much smaller filter every 500 hrs on a Detroit 8.2 in another yard mule. Fleetguard uses an orifice that is too large for these engines and is at the outlet. I put a 1/16th orifice at the inlet. The big LF 750 is a do it your selfers dream. It doesn't take me long to roll an element. I run a secondary filter on these big filters. I will change the secondary filter when I change the big filters. A secondary filter is the only way I can be 100% sure that no paper fibers will get into the oil.
The stock elements are shredded newspapers and are loaded with paper dust. They have a built in filter to keep this out of the oil. When you have a lot of rolling paper you are going to generate loose paper fibers.

Ralph

 

[therion]

Yeah i bought a Canton Accusump PrOiler kit for my van a few months ago but i never got around installing it.. i'm scared of messing up my bypass filter install and causing leaks again.
Also i dont think it will benefit me much, as my car is driven all the time. Anyone wants one.. its up for sale.

email me if interested : [email protected]

 

[Fuelrod]

I think a pre-oiler would have GREAT BENEFIT in many applications. Plain bearings depend on oil PRESSURE to prevent metal to metal contact. Engines not operated for several days drain down almost completely and that first 2 seconds is a run dry moment..The cam & lifters and the compression rings have to wait quite a while on those below zero mornings before they see any lubrication and a pre-oiler won't help much there...To keep the rings and valve stems happy, I add about 3 ounces of TC-w outboard oil to every 20 gallon fill-up if I remember...But that's just me...Some use a little Diesel for the same reason..

hey, can you name the car being crushed??

 

[therion]

quote:

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Originally posted by Fuelrod:
I think a pre-oiler would have GREAT BENEFIT in many applications. Plain bearings depend on oil PRESSURE to prevent metal to metal contact. Engines not operated for several days drain down almost completely and that first 2 seconds is a run dry moment..The cam & lifters and the compression rings have to wait quite a while on those below zero mornings before they see any lubrication and a pre-oiler won't help much there...To keep the rings and valve stems happy, I add about 3 ounces of TC-w outboard oil to every 20 gallon fill-up if I remember...But that's just me...Some use a little Diesel for the same reason..

hey, can you name the car being crushed??

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Hmm interesting. Anyone else can support this idea of adding 2-stroke TC-w oil to your gas tank??

 

[Fuelrod]

If you call it Bardahl Upper Cylinder Lubricant or Marvel Mystery Oil it's easier to swallow, and with it's oil of wintergreen flavor, Marvel goes down nice!

The car in the crusher looks like an Allante to me...