Are extended drains really protecting the engine?

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: JeffGoji
Most likely, a placebo effect in both cases.

However, with some engines and oil brands and weights, it's possible for the oil to sheer down to a lesser grade and cause more mechanical noise to be heard as the miles stack up.

By that same token, it's also possible for some combination of engine oil brands and weight and engines to thicken up and out of grade as you rack up the miles.

So you both could be right.


I'm by nature a skeptic and always lean towards "placebo effect" with things like this, but I've correctly been able to tell when the oil on my fathers truck has been changed without knowing he changed it just by how the truck felt when I drove it.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: lexus114
10,000 miles huh? your crazy.


Our European friends laugh when we [Americans] say things like this.

Our European friends vehicles are designed for longer intervals. Larger oil sump`s,fleece filters etc. I have experienced Mobil 1 on a 10,000 mile interval. Back in 1991 I had a 1987 Ford Escort I used Mobil 1 in due to being an over the road Driver. I woulddnt get home enough to do 3k intervals,so My wife drove the Escort 10k on Mobil 1. When I went to change it,the car was very sluggish,cranked over slow. At that time I decided to put Wolf`s Head back in (which I was using Prior)the vehicle took on a 180 degree turn. I didnt touch Synthetics for 20 years after that. From then on the oil got changed more often,and the car never acted like it did on that MB-1 change ever again. So I`m not just talking here,I experienced it myself.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: JeffGoji
Originally Posted By: lexus114
10,000 miles huh? your crazy.


How so?


Hey,you guys` can buy into that extended drain stuff all you want. Me,I`m not buyin it. And stop comparing it to European vehicles,they are designed for the longer intervals. Our vehicles are not.

 

[webfors]

Umm.. lots of vehicles sold in Europe are sold here. There are a lot of 'world cars' now.

10K oci's with a quality oil (Amsoil, EP, Edge, etc) is a cake walk in a sound engine.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Umm.. lots of vehicles sold in Europe are sold here. There are a lot of 'world cars' now.

10K oci's with a quality oil (Amsoil, EP, Edge, etc) is a cake walk in a sound engine.


Obviously I`m not talking about the European vehicles sold here.

 

[cchase]

It all comes down to personal comfort levels and preferences. Some like changing oil, some like seeing how far they can go on oil. There shouldn't be a feeling of superiority for long OCI's or a feeling that anyone who runs long OCI's is a fool. To each his own.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: cchase
It all comes down to personal comfort levels and preferences. Some like changing oil, some like seeing how far they can go on oil. There shouldn't be a feeling of superiority for long OCI's or a feeling that anyone who runs long OCI's is a fool. To each his own.


cchase,I agree with you. Maybe I`m trying to push my point of view a little here. But I cant get the Escort thing out of my head either.And that was a sound engine,and those motors were pretty easy on oil as well. "Are extended drains really protecting the engine?" I have my opinion on this,as you all have yours,God bless our wonderful country that we are still free to disagree!!

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: lexus114
10,000 miles huh? your crazy.


Our European friends laugh when we [Americans] say things like this.

Our European friends vehicles are designed for longer intervals. Larger oil sump`s,fleece filters etc. I have experienced Mobil 1 on a 10,000 mile interval. Back in 1991 I had a 1987 Ford Escort I used Mobil 1 in due to being an over the rod Driver. I woulddnt get home enough to do 3k intervals,so My wife drove the Escort 10k on Mobil 1. When I went to change it,the car was very sluggish,cranked over slow. At that time I decided to put Wolf`s Head back in (which I was using Prior)the vehicle took on a 180 degree turn. I didnt touch Synthetics for 20 years after that. From then on the oil got changed more often,and the car never acted like it did on that MB-1 change ever again.


4 to 4.5 quart sump in the smaller displacement VW engines, 10K mile interval for most engines. It's been this for 10 years or a bit more. Non-fleece oil filters. They went up to 20K miles / 2 years in Europe with the same setup with OLM.

BMW, MB and the larger VW/Audis have bigger engines, but bigger sumps.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: lexus114
10,000 miles huh? your crazy.


Our European friends laugh when we [Americans] say things like this.

Our European friends vehicles are designed for longer intervals. Larger oil sump`s,fleece filters etc. I have experienced Mobil 1 on a 10,000 mile interval. Back in 1991 I had a 1987 Ford Escort I used Mobil 1 in due to being an over the rod Driver. I woulddnt get home enough to do 3k intervals,so My wife drove the Escort 10k on Mobil 1. When I went to change it,the car was very sluggish,cranked over slow. At that time I decided to put Wolf`s Head back in (which I was using Prior)the vehicle took on a 180 degree turn. I didnt touch Synthetics for 20 years after that. From then on the oil got changed more often,and the car never acted like it did on that MB-1 change ever again.


4 to 4.5 quart sump in the smaller displacement VW engines, 10K mile interval for most engines. It's been this for 10 years or a bit more. Non-fleece oil filters. They went up to 20K miles / 2 years in Europe with the same setup with OLM.

BMW, MB and the larger VW/Audis have bigger engines, but bigger sumps.


Yes,and all the vehicles you mention are European.Hence my point. Ok guy`s I`m done with this now. I dont want it to escalate into a peeing contest. I have made my point,I dont want to make any one angry here re; this. If you want to extend you oci`s, by all means,go for it.

 

[labman]

Ah, but don't they run much heavier oils?

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Yes,and all the vehicles you mention are European.Hence my point.


US cars have sumps less than 4 quarts and have poor fuel management? I think not. Those SAME vehicles sold in Europe don't have 5K mile intervals. Ford Focus (and many others), anyone?

 

[stenerson]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: cchase
It all comes down to personal comfort levels and preferences. Some like changing oil, some like seeing how far they can go on oil. There shouldn't be a feeling of superiority for long OCI's or a feeling that anyone who runs long OCI's is a fool. To each his own.


cchase,I agree with you. Maybe I`m trying to push my point of view a little here. But I cant get the Escort thing out of my head either.And that was a sound engine,and those motors were pretty easy on oil as well. "Are extended drains really protecting the engine?" I have my opinion on this,as you all have yours,God bless our wonderful country that we are still free to disagree!!

You're comparing your experience with one OCI with others who have run 100s of ks on 10k Ocis. And you're calling them crazy?

 

[webfors]

Either am I! There are a lot of world cars that aren't 'European'.

But forget about them. Honda and GM's OLMs are routinely pushing OCI's past 10k, and these cars are manufactured, designed for and sold here, with *conventional* SM oil listed in the manual. I for one would only follow the OLM with a quality syn, but that doesn't change the fact that Honda and GM are confident in these intervals with conventional oil. Definitely pushing the limits IMHO. But using a quality oil designed for extended drains and the OLM becomes conservative.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: stenerson
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: cchase
It all comes down to personal comfort levels and preferences. Some like changing oil, some like seeing how far they can go on oil. There shouldn't be a feeling of superiority for long OCI's or a feeling that anyone who runs long OCI's is a fool. To each his own.


cchase,I agree with you. Maybe I`m trying to push my point of view a little here. But I cant get the Escort thing out of my head either.And that was a sound engine,and those motors were pretty easy on oil as well. "Are extended drains really protecting the engine?" I have my opinion on this,as you all have yours,God bless our wonderful country that we are still free to disagree!!

You're comparing your experience with one OCI with others who have run 100s of ks on 10k Ocis. And you're calling them crazy?

This is why I`m backing out of this debate,because people like yourself try to escalate everything into a big frenzy,and I alway`s seem to be the guy that gets suspended. So... Im not goin for it this time. Sorry to dissapoint,I love a good argument,just not on here. I learned my lesson on that one.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
I dont know why but it seems my engines run smoother as the more miles i put on an oil.


I have the exact opposite experience. Fresh oil always feels smooth to me. Very noticeable difference.


Which just proves that anytime anyone says they can "feel" a difference with an oil change (assuming same viscosity) then they're fooling themselves.

I'll admit to being able to *hear* some slight differences with different oil grades, but even then its not diagnostic because engine sound changes far more with temperature than it does with anything else- even with the exact same oil in the crankcase.

I know there are people out there who SWEAR that they can feel a difference between different oil brands of the same viscosity... I've been playing with engines for 30 years and I don't believe that for a second, and I'm very observant of engine sound and behavior. You're welcome to disagree, but there it is... I said it

 

[stenerson]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: stenerson
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: cchase
It all comes down to personal comfort levels and preferences. Some like changing oil, some like seeing how far they can go on oil. There shouldn't be a feeling of superiority for long OCI's or a feeling that anyone who runs long OCI's is a fool. To each his own.


cchase,I agree with you. Maybe I`m trying to push my point of view a little here. But I cant get the Escort thing out of my head either.And that was a sound engine,and those motors were pretty easy on oil as well. "Are extended drains really protecting the engine?" I have my opinion on this,as you all have yours,God bless our wonderful country that we are still free to disagree!!

You're comparing your experience with one OCI with others who have run 100s of ks on 10k Ocis. And you're calling them crazy?

This is why I`m backing out of this debate,because people like yourself try to escalate everything into a big frenzy.Hey,I know what I said and I stick buy it,take it or leave it!You have your opinions,I have mine.Now move on already!


It's not a debate, just a discussion. Some posted their experience and you said they were crazy. In the end it's all good. Whatever makes us sleep good at night.

 

[webfors]

Right!

5k oci's with conventional = great
10k oci's with quality syn = great

Different paths to the same place.

 

[lexus114]

A-men my brother!

(and yes,I should not have said he was crazy) my bad,Sorry tig1.

I do hope that I gave some of you some food for thought on this.

 

[Gary Allan]

Short of some faulty design characteristic, extended drains are easy with the right product. Most under utilize the oil that they currently use.

The question should be "are synthetics failing to protect engines over extended drains?

The answer is no, they are not failing to protect engines over extended drains. There are a couple of qualifiers. One that the product is formulated for extended drains and that the end user understands the limitations and knows what "extended" means.

I run into this all the time in the filter section "Will a PureOne last 15k?". Sure it will, assuming that the 15k is done in a certain time frame. Will a pureone do 15k over 6 years? No. You can NEVER assume that the sensible "unspoken" words can be taken for granted.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
A-men my brother!

(and yes,I should not have said he was crazy) my bad,Sorry tig1.

I do hope that I gave some of you some food for thought on this.


No problem.I understand that you had a bad experience with M1 with your Escort. My daughter had a 86 Escort ESP with the hopped up engine and we did the 10K OCI with no noticeable problems. I think what ever you feel comfortable with is the way to go.