AR-15 Optics

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john_pifer

john_pifer

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Having never owned an optic (except for the scope that was included with my Crosman Powermaster 66 when I was a kid), I’m in the research and analysis stage of my search for an optic for my New Mexican Colt LE6920. A friend who is involved in competitive shooting suggested I take a look at the Burris RT6, a newer 1-6x24 scope that was introduced at SHOT this year and marketed to 3-gun competitors: https://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/rt-6-riflescopes-series/rt-6-riflescope-1-6x24mm I’ve been reading up on scope parts, terms, technology, etc, and I like the fact that this seems to get pretty close to a “do-it-all” scope. True 1x for close-in engagements, and the capability to go long-range as well (reticle is trajectory-compensated out to 600 yards). And it’s backed by a “Forever Warranty” - fully-transferable, no questions asked. Sounds pretty good. Competing scopes around this price point are the Vortex Strike Eagle: http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-strike-eagle-1-6x24-riflescope-ar-bdc-reticle And the Primary Arms Gen 3 with ACSS reticle: http://www.primaryarms.com/pa1-6x24sfp-acss-5-56 The Primary Arms scope site says it has a lifetime warranty on manufacturing defects and even wear & tear, as well. A lot of guys also seem to really like that reticle; I understand Trijicon has started building the ACOG with that same reticle. So what do you guys think? Any of y’all have one of these? What do you use?
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Trijicon.
Wouldn’t a Trijicon equivalent to one of those I listed be at least $1000?
 
What are your plans for the AR? Do you plan to compete, and if so, 3-gun? Or just a range toy? Longer distances? I'm not a glass expert, but I think that info would help other with their suggestions.
 
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: CT8
Trijicon.
Wouldn’t a Trijicon equivalent to one of those I listed be at least $1000?
Optics Planet has some Trijicon optics for less than 1000, but mostly, yes. On a carbine about all I need is an A2 carry handle. Admittedly I have no experience with any of the optics you mentioned. I tried a scope on a carbine and really did not care for it, It was a quality scope too (Leupold). I have however shot them with Holographic sights and liked that better. If I was going to put an optic on my 6920, it would be an EOTech or perhaps a ACOG, for my H-Bar a Leupold Mark AR in at least 3-9. If you insist on an optical scope of relatively low power I would look at: Leupold Mark AR MOD 1 1.5-4x20mm or Leupold VX•R Patrol 1.25-4x20mm (30mm)
 
We cant help you until you tell us what you are trying to accomplish with the rifle. Do you want a home defense gun that sits next to the bed? Do you want a range plinker? Do you plan on competing in 3 gun competitions? Are you a prepper getting your SHTF rifle and supplies ready? For MY use, which was as a law enforcement patrol rifle, and now as a home defense gun, and perhaps as a SHTF rifle if society collapses, then I have found nothing better than a non-magnified quality red dot by Aimpoint. EoTech and Trijicon MRO are also excellent choices for non-magnified optics in this category. Red dots are FAST and accurate, and all that I will ever need in any scenario that I can come up with. I can shoot 10 people in the head at 250 yards 10 times out of 10 with nothing more than a red dot, so I dont see the need, or want, for magnification. If I want or need magnification, I would set up a DMR style rifle or good bolt gun, with the 6920 is not. Also, for home defense and FAST target acquisition at CQB ranges, a red dot is superior to a 1-6x variable scope. This is an excellent deal and likely what I would recommend depending on your end use for the rifle. https://www.botach.com/trijicon-mro-w-american-defense-quick-release-mount/
 
It will be used for “everything”. Target shooting from 25-600 yards, primarily. I’d like to see what kind of accuracy I can achieve with the rifle. I’d also like to see what I could do with my Mini-30. That’s why I like the versatility of a scope like a 1-6x.
 
I had an inexpensive scope on my AR but didn't like it. Didn't like the way it made the rifle top heavy. It threw the balance off. Also makes target acquisition slow. I really like my $100 aimpoint red dot.
 
The 1-6X or 1-8X power scopes will do it all. If they are a true 1X power get one with an illuminated reticle and you can shoot from zero to farther than a 5.56 is effective. Trijicons are great but fixed power and if you're older like me they don't work without wearing readers as they have no focus adjustment. Red dots are good but I find they cost me light when in dim/dark conditions and I can see much more detail through a low powered variable. In optics you generally get what you pay for. Burris, Leupold, Nikon, Vortex and several others offer quality scopes that are durable and come with lifetime warranties at reasonable prices.
 
I like the iron sight and flipup on the rear on my 6920... don't think I'd change that. Maybe if I was running a 20" barrel and flat top upper? Ill keep scopes for my bolt guns. Have you tried using the factory sights at 100 yards?
 
A scope I have really come to like after using it, is this Leatherwood 2.5-10X, 44 MM, ART M-1000. This scope was very popular during the Vietnam War. It uses a mechanical camming system so you can hold dead on at very long ranges. (Up to 1,000 Meters). The scope is very clear and bright. And the best part is it comes ready to mount. The scope is delivered set in the rings. All you have to do is position it on the rail where you want it, and tighten both thumb screws, just like you do on a carry handle. The scope can be quickly and easily removed if you want to use the iron sights. And it comes with flip up type scope covers. You don't have to buy a thing extra. Then when you remount it, the scope will return to zero. The video shows how you set the cam to the load you're shooting. Then all you do is set the range, and hold dead on. It's amazingly accurate. Leatherwood has been making these scopes for a long time. And they work today just as well as they did in the 60's. This is the scope mounted on my Colt 6940 Monolith.
 
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: CT8
Trijicon.
Wouldn’t a Trijicon equivalent to one of those I listed be at least $1000?
Trijicon's are tacticool.
 
I have an Aimpoint on my first AR. I really want a Trijicon ACOG for one of my other ARs but the cover charge is pretty high. I have a Primary Arms mini red dot that I first used on my M&P 15-22, but now have it on one of my AKs that I put a Ultimak mount on. Hard to rationalize an expensive optic on a cheap gun.
 
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I had an inexpensive scope on my AR but didn't like it. Didn't like the way it made the rifle top heavy. It threw the balance off. Also makes target acquisition slow. I really like my $100 aimpoint red dot.
Agree.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I like the iron sight and flipup on the rear on my 6920... don't think I'd change that. Maybe if I was running a 20" barrel and flat top upper? Ill keep scopes for my bolt guns. Have you tried using the factory sights at 100 yards?
No - I don’t even have the rifle yet! Yes, I will do some shooting with iron sights with it.
 
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I like the iron sight and flipup on the rear on my 6920... don't think I'd change that. Maybe if I was running a 20" barrel and flat top upper? Ill keep scopes for my bolt guns. Have you tried using the factory sights at 100 yards?
No - I don’t even have the rifle yet! Yes, I will do some shooting with iron sights with it.
If you don't have a lot of experience with rifles/guns, I'd go inexpensive until you know what you want. Optics can get outrageously expensive and you don't want to buy something and not like it and be stuck with a big bill on your credit card.
 
Brownells has a sale going on the Sig Sauer Romeo 5 for $140 shipped (there's often coupon codes floating around to take another $10 off & give free shipping)... LINK . I picked up two of them for some recent builds I completed, and for the money I think it's an amazing value. 2-MOA, waterproof, flat lithium battery instead of larger AA, small overall footprint, a bunch of brightness adjustments, etc. It also has a unique feature that I like where it will auto shut off after two min of zero movement... and automatically turn back on when any movement is detected (literally - a poke is enough movement to activate it). So when you pick up the rifle - it's ready to rock! Comes with two base mounts too... low-rise, and one that perfectly co-witnesses with the front iron sight. And the end of the day - the stock 6920 front iron sight and flip-up rear sight is combat accurate for a basic user to 100+ yards regardless. You should be able to put 10/10 on paper with very little practice at that range. The red-dot upgrade just makes for easier and faster target acquisition (where the dot is - the bullet goes)... plus you get to shoot with both eyes open, which helps situational awareness. Think of a red dot as an "upgraded" iron sight. Scopes stay on my hunting rifles as I have no need for them on my AR's.
 
While I'll admit I like shooting peep / post iron sights that most AR-15 rifles come with, they are a waste of that rifle platforms inherent accuracy. Many .223 AR-15 rifles are easily capable of close to, if not minute of angle accuracy with proper ammunition, and free floated forends. By shooting stock iron sights you will NEVER see that kind of accuracy. Even if you shoot some big 3 minute red dot, or holographic EO-Tech, you most likely are not going to get the accuracy the rifle is capable of delivering. Now if it's a house gun for personal defense, it doesn't matter. Especially if the range is going to be across a living room, or a king size mattress. But for a range gun, why not have a sight system that's capable of extracting the full accuracy of the weapon? The cheapest scope will deliver much more accuracy than the best irons. And they're not going to break the bank doing it. You don't need to drop 4 digits plus on a Leupold Mark IV. This Nikon P-223 on my Bushmaster Modular Carbine gives excellent accuracy. Far beyond what I could get out of the BUIS sights it came with. And I think it ran me less than $250.00 plus the rings. So if you are going to be shooting this rifle at the range, I think over time you'll be a lot happier with your results if you go with some type of optics over iron sights.
 
Ended up going with the Burris RT-6 1-6x24 variable rifle scope for my Colt 6920, along with the Burris PEPR mount with flat-top Picatinny rails and QD system. https://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/rt-6-riflescopes-series/rt-6-riflescope-1-6x24mm Review: https://loadoutroom.com/thearmsguide/burris-rt-6-riflescope-first-look/ Video from SHOT 2017 (none of the YouTube gun channels have reviewed it yet): https://youtu.be/SKIPsPGZwm4 Bought from SportOptics.com. They had the lowest price I could find (15% off their list price of $349, which equated to $296). Got the mount for $93 from Amazon. So, with transfer fee of $25, I got the rifle, scope and mount for a total of $1103. Not too bad! We'll see how it does. They also offer this as a package that includes the Burris FastFire red dot sight. But one guy who submitted a review said that the scope, on the 1x setting, offered such easy and fast target acquisition, that he found that he didn't even need the Fast Fire, and sold it. Also has the "Forever Warranty" - a no-questions-asked, fully-transferable warranty. Pretty excited! First AR-15 and first rifle scope! The scope and rifle should be here by Monday!
 
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