API SM for scooter engine and gearbox?

[illyas]

hi guys, i just get my 1st scooter recently. but i'm having problem on choosing which engine oil for my scooter.. hope to get some advice here.

my scooter are 115cc air-cooler yamaha scooter (cvt, with out wet cluth), and the spec requirement are:
Engine oil: API SH 20w40 (it didn't show JASO MA or MB)
Final Transmission oil: API SE 10w40

i'm live in malaysia, south east asia.
i have reading from many website and this forum, and i've found out that the scooter can use automotive engine oil, but there is hard to find Shell rotella or amsoil or Redline product in malaysia, and also the diesel engine oil is expensive here, and mobil 1 is most expensive oil product here..

and.. the more i read, the more i confuse about the API SM class. isn't really bad for engine and transmission?

because i was trying to use mobil xhp plus 15w40 (API SM/CF, ACEA A3B3,mineral automotive oil) into my scooter engine and gearbox, but soon i find out what you guys discussing is about the antiwear additive like zynn and moly..

so i am worry about this, i'm afraid that this API SM oil cannot protect the engine and gearbox. so can give me some advice?

p.s: sorry for my bad english..

 

[simple_gifts]

Welcome to the site. How old is the scooter? SE and SH are old specs. I don't feel qualified to comment on your particular situation, but you could always use an aftermarket oil additive to boost your zinc/moly levels or try to find SL rated oil. It should have higher levels of anti-wear additives that you are looking for.



Someone else please chime in....

 

[XS650]

Those scooters don't normally have an oil filter and they specify frequent oil changes, as often as every 1000km in some cases. I think synthetics are a waste of money because the oil is changed out so soon to get rid of contamination.

I would look for a 15W-40 diesel oil intended for diesel trucks that also has an SJ or SL or SM rating. In the US most 15W-40 oils meet those requirements. They have loads of protection.

If you find one that also carries the Allison C4 rating, it is also rated for gears and clutches, so should be OK in your final drive. Most 15W-40 oil in the us also meets C4, but I don't know what you will find in Malaysia.

I have seen people comment on the price of oil for a scooter not mattering because they only take about 1 quart. Unfortunately, with a 600 to 1000 mile oil change interval, you will run more oil through a scooter engine than you would run through a full sized car engine with reasonable oil change intervals.

 

[illyas]

it's a brand new scooter, made in 2008.
in fact, mostly all the engine oil product in malaysia is API SG, only above semi-s will be API SJ or SL (and the price would be 50% higher, the top-shelf semi-s shell vsx 15w50 is the API SL, but i'm afraid the viscocity too high for my 115cc..

 

[illyas]

ya, the scooter don't have an oil filter, and the owner's manual ask for 2000km oil change interval for engine and 10000km oil change for final transmission.

that's is something i don't understand, diesel oil cheaper than automotive oil in US? because in malaysia, the cheapest oil is automotive oil> m/c oil> scooter oil>.. then most expensive is Mobil 1 and Diesel oil.. mobil 1 or mobil delva cost 4 times more compare to mobil mineral oil.

how about ACEA A3/B3, is this important point?

p.s: in fact, mostly all the engine oil product in malaysia is API SG c engine oil, not automotive oil.

 

[azsynthetic]

The question here is how do you operate your scooter? Do you routinely overload your scooter with cargo? Do you operate mostly in stop and go traffic in high temperature high humidity environment? Do you routinely ride your scooter in the rain and flooded street? The more "Yes" you answer the more you going to need synthetic oil. If not then just go with the manufacturer recommendation.

I have three scooters in Vietnam when I am there and I bring my own synthetic oils. I run mostly Motul Etech 100 and I change at 5K Km. If my bike in under water then I change the oil as soon as I can. Most bikes in SE Asia are under constant abuse and therefore under constant repair and upkeep. My favorite scooter is the Yamaha Exciter 135LC and it is a fast bike for its size.

 

[Norm Olt]

15W-50 would probably work just fine for both, IMHO. How much does it use? If just a couple quarts, give it a try: if it won't run, drain and go to plan B...

 

[illyas]

i didnt really overload my scooter with cargo, but i always travel on highway around 30 minutes with speed between 80kmh~110kmh. is it bad for air-cooler scooter?

this scooter only need 1L engine oil and 0.1L transmission oil.
i have try to put the "mobil xhp plus 15w40 api sm (mineral oil for automotive)" into both engine and transmission this morning, it can run. but i'm afraid the amount of ZDDP in API SM would not provide enough protection for my scooter's engine and gearbox.

you know, this is my first bike, so im just worry...

 

[illyas]

update.. i have read some topic about scooter and oil here.
i find out my scooter transmission almost same design with others.

a) it's automatic CVT transmission.
b) "The oil in the trans really only lubricates 1 gearset and the axle itself." (from Cujet in the older topic point out.)
c) the manual req API SE 10w40 for final transmission..

here is the problems come, first i know someone used the "m/c 4t oil" in their scooter final transmission with no problem, but how about if i use "automotive oil especially API SM" into my final transmission? is that will cause trouble because of the shear or lower ZDDP in API SM?
second is the about the engine protection, this two question make me headache..

the reason why i want to use automotive oil is because of the price..
in here, a "1L m/c mineral oil" cost around USD 5.5 (exchange rate), if "4L automotive oil" cost around USD 15.
m/c oil price x4, i can get a semi-s automotive oil here. so i dont think it is worth for m/c oil.
and also with automotive oil can be easily find, and i can find my own favorite brand like mobil, m/c oil choices are limited here.
what are your thought?
i'm new in motocycle, so i hope can learn from you guys.

 

[coffee]

I agree with using a 15w40 oil for 1-2k oil OCI's. It is a very durable oil and will work well for you.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: illyas
i didnt really overload my scooter with cargo, but i always travel on highway around 30 minutes with speed between 80kmh~110kmh. is it bad for air-cooler scooter?

this scooter only need 1L engine oil and 0.1L transmission oil.
i have try to put the "mobil xhp plus 15w40 api sm (mineral oil for automotive)" into both engine and transmission this morning, it can run. but i'm afraid the amount of ZDDP in API SM would not provide enough protection for my scooter's engine and gearbox.

you know, this is my first bike, so im just worry...


110Kmh for a 115cc bike is over loading the bike, you are running at or very close to the engine red line. If you are worry then I would get the best oil that you can, i.e. 4T MC oil. Your driving speed hurts your bike more than the type of oil you are running.

 

[illyas]

i see..
so i have to carefully choosing which M/C oil for it.
is it possible to use backward API SG grade in my scooter? since the spec require API SH, but i can't find it anymore in malaysia.

and, how about API SJ? is SJ better than SL in term of protection?

however, i found some interesting website about oil here, just to share: http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/text/topic/146867-1.htm

 

[azsynthetic]

SJ rating is good for your bike.

 

[illyas]

i've download the different regional version of yamaha nouvo owner manual from yamaha brazil, and my own malaysia version. note, it's same model with same cc, totally same.

the spec req:
API SF (brazil)
API SG (taiwan)
API SG (indonesia)
API SH (malaysia)

i just wonder why yamaha malaysia would recommend API SH 20w40 even when API SF/SG can use on this scooter. then i take a look at the final page of my owner manual, it written: Yamaha recommend Shell...
it make sense now, Shell advance lowest range product is API SH 20w40, since others lowest/mid range product are still stick with API SG, even the Yamalube product from thailand also API SG.. i smell some marketing ploy... just my thought, correct me if im wrong..

so, if this scooter really can use API SG, should API SG better than API SJ? since i read the post about API SG contain more ZDDP than SH/SJ/SL.. but how about other fuction like Thermal and oxidation stability, corrosion protection?

sorry for my freaky question, i just want try to find some balance point between protection and cost.

actually i would like to try API SJ, but Mobil Extra 4t (SJ/Jaso MA) not available here, only Mobil Super 4t (SG/Jaso MA).. so im wondering should i stick with mobil or just search for another brand who carry API SJ..?

 

[azsynthetic]

Mobil Super 4t (SG/Jaso MA) is sufficient for your bike. If you change it every 2K or less then you will be alright.

 

[illyas]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Mobil Super 4t (SG/Jaso MA) is sufficient for your bike. If you change it every 2K or less then you will be alright.


i see, but this Mobil Super 4t only available 20w50 in Malaysia even their website has 4 different viscocity...
is there any problem if i use this Mobil Super 4t (SG/JASO MA 20w50) in my scooter? overheat problem or somethings else?
if this is good, maybe i'll get it this weekend.


here is some option for me now, all is 4T m/c oil except Mobil XHP plus.
can give me some suggestion? really appreciate.

a) Mobil Super 4T 20w50 (SG/JASO MA)
b) Shell Advance SX 15w40 (SJ/JASO MA)
c) Castrol Power 1 15w40 (SG/JASO MA)
d) Castrol Scooter 10w40 (SJ/JASO MB, since it it JASO MB, i worry not suitable for my transmission... or suit?)
e) Mobil XHP Plus 15w40 (SM/ACEA A3/B3)....

 

[azsynthetic]

My choice would be:

1. Castrol Scooter 10w40
2. Castrol Power 1 15w40
3. Mobil Super 4T 20w50
4. Shell Advance SX 15w40
5. Mobil XHP Plus 15w40

Make sure the Shell Advance is not recycle oil.

 

[illyas]

I don't know Shell Advance use recycle oil, but many motorist here wouldn't advice to use Shell Advance, many of them stick with Castrol, even Castrol have many fake oil here. maybe this is the reason..?
Is that Shell Advance in US are recycle oil? how is the reputation about Castrol m/c oil and Shell m/c oil there?

Thanks for the advice~ i'll get myself a Castrol Scooter this weekend.