Anyone service an AT that has a plug in place of..

[demarpaint]

I'm just wondering if anyone here has actually serviced or for that matter checked the tranny fluid level in a vehicle that has a plug in place of the dipstick. Pretty stupid idea in my book, it says something like dealer service only. I mean there's no way to verify that the car rolled out of the factory with the transmission filled to the correct level.

They want it checked and serviced by the dealer, with "special equipment", and the proper level varies with temperature etc. At least that's what I've read. Vehicle in question is an 08 Jeep Liberty, and at some future point in time I want to drain the transmission. I realize I can measure what I take out and replace that amount, but I don't even know if the level was right when it rolled off the assembly line.

Thanks,
Frank D

 

[StevieC]

This is what I would do to service the transmission... I would over fill it by 2 quarts. Run the engine in the drive way, and put it into Drive, Reverse etc. to fill all the circuits with fluid. Then shut it down and drain out all the fluid for a change. Refill with what the owners manual requires. If it's "Over-Full" when you drain it you can be rest-assured the Torque converter etc is full before you change it. This will also help to flush more dirty fluid out by displacing it with new fluid.

This will not hurt the transmission by over filling it, so long as you don't drive it like this... Just let it idle in the drive-way while moving the selector through Drive, Neutral, Reverse.

Screw the dealer and their stupid "Only we can service the vehicle" B.S.

Cheers and good luck buddy...

 

[hate2work]

Stevie, your idea is not practical. With these new "lifetime" trannies, there is no easy way to add fluid or check for the proper level, as there is no dipstick to work with. You even have to have the engine running and be under the vehicle in order to check the level. What?

Personally, if I had a lifetime tranny and wanted to do a drain and refill, I would simply do it cold and replace the EXACT amount of fluid that came out. To add fluid to one of these you have to get under the car and use a fluid pump. But you're right, Frank, you really don't even know if the level was correct from the factory.

It's very likely that the entire idea behind the "lifetime" tranny is simply to make it much more difficult for the DIY guy to service his own tranny, thereby creating more service work for the dealership.

 

[Crashbox]

No dipstick in the new transmissions? Seriously? That is some kind of "warped" in my opinion. If it were me I'd find SOME way to readily determine the level, even if I had to add a sight glass!

Man, oh, man, what were the engineers thinking when they designed something like that? Reckon I'll stick to sticks.

 

[duaneb9729]

I have a car that has no transmission dip stick, and i have changed the fluid in it.

what a pain in the behind!
We have a VW Jetta, and in order to do a proper fluid change you have to jack up the car so its level, drain the fluid into a container. Measure it, so you can add that amount later, as a starting point. Drop the pan and replace the filter, replace the same amount of fluid.

This is the fun part, VW would like you to have some special tool, to monitor the transmission fluid temperature, but you can also use a infrared therm to measure the transmission pan temperature.

The VW has two pan drain bolts, an inner one and outer one. the inner one, aids in getting the right amount of fluid in, one just keeps adding it till it dribbles out of the inner drain at the right fluid temperature.

I detailed this to show that its not hard to do at all, its just more involved than we are used to.

I wonder if the guys over a jeep forum have some sort of work around?

 

[Eddie]

Isn't that sick? I can assure you no engineer decided to make a decision like this abortion. Sounds like the bean counters or service advisor's. Keep the service people working

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: duaneb9729
I have a car that has no transmission dip stick, and i have changed the fluid in it.

what a pain in the behind!
We have a VW Jetta, and in order to do a proper fluid change you have to jack up the car so its level, drain the fluid into a container. Measure it, so you can add that amount later, as a starting point. Drop the pan and replace the filter, replace the same amount of fluid.

This is the fun part, VW would like you to have some special tool, to monitor the transmission fluid temperature, but you can also use a infrared therm to measure the transmission pan temperature.

The VW has two pan drain bolts, an inner one and outer one. the inner one, aids in getting the right amount of fluid in, one just keeps adding it till it dribbles out of the inner drain at the right fluid temperature.

I detailed this to show that its not hard to do at all, its just more involved than we are used to.

I wonder if the guys over a jeep forum have some sort of work around?


Thanks for all the replies.


As of yet, I haven't seen a work around. They have the fill tube just like all the older AT's had, with a black plug, it looks like a cork. It's marked for dealer service or something like that. Checking the level is quite involved, and requires a special dipstick a chart and a then fluid temps are measured, and the level is based on temps. At least that is what I've found out for now. Honestly I doubt the dealer techs know how to do it either.

I was going to get a pump suck fluid out the fill tube measure it, and just hope the level was correct from the factory. Then just replace that amount. I'm more concerned when it comes time for a pan drop, since containing all the fluid sometimes isn't that easy.

I was also toying with the idea of finding out what the last year was that the Liberty had a dipstick, and if it was the same transmission, (which I think it is) and get a dipstick for that year. Or making a dipstick, and reading the fluid level cold, and making a mark, then make another mark when the fluid was hot, and using that. Problem is I still don't know if it was ever filled correctly in the beginning.

I'm hoping a BITOG member that owns or works in tranny shop will weigh in.

Again thanks for the replies!
Frank D

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm just wondering if anyone here has actually serviced or for that matter checked the tranny fluid level in a vehicle that has a plug in place of the dipstick...


Sure have and several times at that! The GM 4L30E used in ~1997+ Isuzu products has two plugs on the trans pan. The one recessed/stamped higher up on the pan is the level check/fill port, the lower is the drain. Both face straight down. You wanna talk about a stoopid setup?? I challenge anyone to find one worse.

Joel

 

[ksJoe]

My IS350 is like that. It takes WS fluid. For $10 I got 24 hours access to techinfo.toyota.com and downloaded several hundred service manual sections for it.

One section I got covers the fluid change procedure. The plug I assumed was a simple drain plug has a tube on it several inches long, so it lets the overflow drain out down to the proper level. It is supposed to be done with the transmission fluid in a specific temp range. They recommend the scan tool to tell the exact temp, but there is a sequence to make a light on the dash flash when it is in an ok range for this procedure.

Right now it has 44k miles. Even though ws is supposed to be lifetime fluid, I think I will change it at around a 100k. The factory service manual spec, I don't think it would be a problem.

If you have a toyota product, I'd strongly suggest spending the $10 to get access to the proper info. With that, you may find it isn't that complicated - if you know the proper procedure.

BTW, most of the info at techinfo.toyota.com can't be "downloaded", but you can print it. So before paying the $10, install a printer driver that prints to pdf files. Then anything you want you print and a pdf file is generated. They encourage subscriptions by making the process tedious. I have 700-800 pdf files for my IS350. Its not everything they had, but its almost everything I would consider doing myself.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
Isn't that sick? I can assure you no engineer decided to make a decision like this abortion. Sounds like the bean counters or service advisor's. Keep the service people working

If you remove the dipstick, you'll discourage unqualified people from servicing the transmission. That way, at least you will know that the transmission has the correct fluid. You'd be surprised how many shops are still using "mystery" ATF and PTFE transmission friction modifier additives to service transmissions. I'd rather 60k old factory fill than that stuff.

But to the OP, you'll probably need a scan tool to monitor the fluid temperature in order to perform a fluid level check. Just have the dealership perform a flush and fill when the time comes, or take it to a trusted auto shop.

 

[ksJoe]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Just have the dealership perform a flush and fill when the time comes, or take it to a trusted auto shop.


Going to the dealer is not necessarily enough.

Since we put so few miles on the Vue, I just recently got around to flushing it to clean this up.

When I called the Saturn dealer to check the price of their T-IV, he said they just use a universal fluid and an additive pack when people bring them in for flushes. He suggested for topping off, I use their Saturn T-IV ($19.95/qt). But if I'm flushing it all out, he said it would be fine to use any "premium" universal fluid. I bought a case of T-IV from the Toyota dealer for $4.32/qt.

 

[UncleRunkle]

My Jaguar's transmission is a Ford 5r55n that has no dipstick. It has a drain plug that is a long, hollow tube with a check plug screwed into the middle of it. You have to hold the drain plug steady with a boxed end wrench while racheting out the drain plug in order to check the level. After some experimentation in my garage with various jack stand positions I finally found four points that get the car perfectly level on four jackstands. I use an optical thermometer to check fluid temp. It only requires 90 degree temps so it doesn't take much to get the temp to spec. Then as long as fluid "trickles" out of the pan your good. Just be on the lookout for air bubbles that means you don't have enough fluid.

 

[demarpaint]

I fear the dealer, and bulk fluid with some additive to make it right. The pan has no drain plug. What I think they did was remove the dipstick and put a plug into the 4 speed automatic transmission they've been using for years. Basically complicate simplicity. I see the point in the mfg not wanting Jiffy Boob using the wrong fluid, or the DYI'er using the wrong fluid, but that can happen with any AT.

When I'm ready to do this task I'm hoping there is some work around, or I can find a shop that will do it with the correct fluid and not some bulk junk that they pour additives into and make it good.

Stupid question: Lets go under the assumption that the fluid was properly filled at the factory. I make a cold mark after allowing it to sit overnight on level ground. Next I drive the car, get the fluid warm, then check it as any other Chrysler AT same model that had a dipstick 2006 IIRC. Then I make my own dipstick (new marks if needed) from a 2006 Junk Yard tranny dipstick, from the same model AT as mine, the levels might even be correct on the 2006 dipstick. How far off could I possibly be? Just thinking out loud here, and looking for more feedback. Time is on my side here.

Again, many thanks!
Frank D

 

[Spector]

Yep. that Isuzu is a bear and you actually have to mold a hook out of the plastic to have it go into the pan as the plug is not on the side, it is straight up. Plus, to then check it you must crawl under and remove the fill plug while hot and running to assure that it has been filled and it comes out of the fill plug.

Visited a VW dealer last year and they mentioned the ATF fluid could only be changed by dealer due to a unique key that was need to drain and fill. I informed them that was idiotic and walked out

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Crashbox
No dipstick in the new transmissions? Seriously? That is some kind of "warped" in my opinion. If it were me I'd find SOME way to readily determine the level, even if I had to add a sight glass!

Man, oh, man, what were the engineers thinking when they designed something like that? Reckon I'll stick to sticks.



Crashbox,

If you think thats bad, my son in laws Mercds SL500 doesn't even have a dip stick for the engine oil. It uses a sensor to detect low oil level. Last year the sensor acted up and he over filled the engine by 2 qts. Had to take it to the dealer, drained all the oil out, filled it to the proper level, then fixed the sensor.