Any experiences driving on chains/cables/snow socks?

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May 6, 2005
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Just wondering. I have a set and I have tried putting them on in my garage or driveway, but I've never actually put them on and driven with them. Whenever I hit chain controls, my Subaru was enough.

I've got pristine SCC Super Z6 S131 for my 205/55R16 tires on my 2004 WRX. I also packed a headlamp, old knee pads, and some disposable gloves which fit in the nylon carrying case. I get that a lot of newer cars have lower profile tires and might not even be recommended for use with chains. But these supposedly can support the tightest clearances. I do remember going to Tahoe years ago with the family and where we bought some ladder chains but returned them without installing them. I also bought a set once in the Tahoe area and returned them when there were no chain controls. I've seen that a lot of stores don't accept returns of tire traction devices for this very reason.

I keep on hearing that they should be driven extremely carefully, although I could have sworn that I saw a truck with traditional chains going 40 MPH up I-80 near Donner Summit. I've seen these things that fell off of a car, just sitting on the side of the road in South Lake Tahoe or even on State Route 89. Since these are diagonal chains, I hear they don't really drive all that differently other than needing to take it slow, such as ladder types that "slip and grip".

Finally, I've got these cables and I think I got them maybe 10 years ago. Obviously I can't return them and they're well out of warranty. But is there any kind of shelf life to them? They don't seem to have any rust or wear other than maybe some scratches from when I installed them in my driveway. I was thinking they could last a while as long as I kept them free of rust.
 
Speed and chains and cables are a no no. Chains are the best, Cables the second best but again go slow. They need to be properly installed. Practice installing the chains it at home a few times rather than try to learn on the side of the road when it is cold and snowy and maybe dark. I used to go to Lake Tahoe and Reno from the Bay Area when I lived in the Bay Area. The Chain Monkey's know how to install chains But it is best to learn. Chains and cables last till they break . Inspect then on occasion.
 
It's been a while since I have driven on chains. It's just like driving in the snow, drive slow, and avoid anything adrupt (steering, accelerating and braking).

A dry-cleaning hanger can be made into a hook with handle, to help you grab the chain/cable when you swing it around the back of the tire.
 
Speed and chains and cables are a no no. Chains are the best, Cables the second best but again go slow. They need to be properly installed. Practice installing the chains it at home a few times rather than try to learn on the side of the road when it is cold and snowy and maybe dark. I used to go to Lake Tahoe and Reno from the Bay Area when I lived in the Bay Area. The Chain Monkey's know how to install chains But it is best to learn. Chains and cables last till they break . Inspect then on occasion.
Some cars have limited suspension clearance, which must chains in the $100 to $200 price range will not fit.

Of course, one can spend a lot of money for a set of Spikes Spider or Konig K-summit, but for an AWD car, that will rarely see chains actually installed,.... it's your money how you want to spend it.
 
Some cars have limited suspension clearance, which must chains in the $100 to $200 price range will not fit.

Of course, one can spend a lot of money for a set of Spikes Spider or Konig K-summit, but for an AWD car, that will rarely see chains actually installed,.... it's your money how you want to spend it.

Nah - I got that set already, although I'm not sure what I would do if we were taking my wife's Civic to Tahoe or other places where there might be snow. I took a break and went out to see if I could install one of the Super Z6 in my driveway for additional practice. It was a bit different than I remembered. It was kind of a pain getting it around and under. It also seems that the cables (that are pulled in by the tighteners) aren't of equal length, although the longer segments were where the outside keyhole connectors were placed. Still - it was relatively easy. I'd had to see what it's like with traditional ladder chains or even regular chains. I still couldn't get it perfectly even, but I'm thinking that driving will help center them. Or at least the big difficulty is in the section under the tire. There's some website where the tester calls dealing with regular chains as a "Gordian Knot".

As for the Super Z6, they haven't changed at all, right down to the bag and the color of the coated cable.



My big worry isn't even snow, which I have handled before. But ice just absolutely scares me. I've seen way too much video of vehicles just sliding around on ice. Is this driving on a frozen lake? At the very least, it looks like a closely spaced ladder with a thick chain means that the metal maintains contact all the time.

 
I have never driven with chains, cables or these socks, but studded snow tires are pretty darn good on ice. I would also say, despite what others may feel, that if you need chains ,,,,maybe you should just stay put and not go out? I realize that's not an option in some situations.
 
I have never driven with chains, cables or these socks, but studded snow tires are pretty darn good on ice. I would also say, despite what others may feel, that if you need chains ,,,,maybe you should just stay put and not go out? I realize that's not an option in some situations.

I don't know if I would necessarily need them legally in California. I've never heard of the theoretical R3 chain condition declared where even AWD would be required to have chains. The key is that it's winter recreation more than anything else, so one might go when there's good road conditions, but it's bad on the way home. And I would probably never be forced to put them on, but if the conditions were really bad and I had to get out of a bad situation, I would put on the chains anyways since mine are fairly easy to install.
 
I don't know if I would necessarily need them legally in California. I've never heard of the theoretical R3 chain condition declared where even AWD would be required to have chains. The key is that it's winter recreation more than anything else, so one might go when there's good road conditions, but it's bad on the way home. And I would probably never be forced to put them on, but if the conditions were really bad and I had to get out of a bad situation, I would put on the chains anyways since mine are fairly easy to install.
Just before the new year, in Dec 2020, R3 chain controls were in effect around Big Bear Lakes, in SoCal.
 
Just before the new year, in Dec 2020, R3 chain controls were in effect around Big Bear Lakes, in SoCal.
Really? Most have told me that a road will usually be closed rather than declare R3. But even if it is closed, some will be stuck while still open. I might just install them if it gets really bad, and where it’s safe.
 
Really? Most have told me that a road will usually be closed rather than declare R3. But even if it is closed, some will be stuck while still open. I might just install them if it gets really bad, and where it’s safe.
R2 during the day, and when it froze over, R3 overnight.
 
Some cars have limited suspension clearance, which must chains in the $100 to $200 price range will not fit.

Of course, one can spend a lot of money for a set of Spikes Spider or Konig K-summit, but for an AWD car, that will rarely see chains actually installed,.... it's your money how you want to spend it.

Since I just got a set of Super Z (not Z-chain) cables for the Civic, I had a look-see at the difference between that and the Super Z6 I've got for my WRX. This is what I could see:

1) The Super Z6 comes in a nylon bag. The Super Z comes in a plastic box and it can be a pain to put it back in. I would probably just bring a large dishpan if I ever had to take them off and store them. The box is oddly shaped.

2) The Super Z6 has blue coated cables while the Super Z has bare metal cables.

3) The Super Z6 uses relatively flat keyhole connectors at all three connection points. The Super Z uses two bent keyholes on the inside and there are two nubs at each end. Not sure if maybe this allows a little bit more flexibility in tire size. The outside connector is a hook that attaches to a link. There's no specific way to secure these. They rely on the chain tighteners to pull on the connectors.

4) The provided chain tighteners look to be the same type although probably not the same size. The Super Z6 has red plastic beads at the ends of the cross members while the Super Z is yellow. I've seen photos of some Super Z models that didn't have the plastic bead. The coils are made of the same materials and look to be about the same thickness.

5) The main difference seems to be thickness of the connection points connecting the crossmembers to the side cables. On the Super Z they look to be about 15mm thick, where the crossmembers have a crimped-on attachment that then slots into holes in the connection points. On the Super Z6 they're really thin where they seem to be crimped directly into the connectors. So this is probably where they have the advantage on wheel well clearance because this is so much thinner. They're the same on both sides, even though it's probably not needed on the outside.
 
Have put chains regularly on Gs and trucks while in the military and also while volunteer service with the THW. Privately, I have once used chains on my w123 for legal reasons in Austria and once for getting off a wet meadow after heavy rain (designated temporary parking at an event) after I had observed other cars trying to leave getting stuck.

Practice putting on chains at least twice. Once in normal temperatures, and once in the cold. Cold fingers make everything extremely difficult.
You do not want unpack your chains for the first time on the shoulder of a highway, miserable from the cold with frozen fingers and when it's to dark to read the instructions. Also remember that after driving a short distance, most chains will need to be checked and re-tightened.
Chains are horrible to drive with on hard surfaces. It's loud, the vehicle reacts funny, and they vibrate. Also, chains limit your speed to 50km/h or less. And even if 50km/h are allowed, you would not want to drive that fast anyways. Trust me, it's horrible. Once you hit pavement, you will take them off.
The only real necessity for chains, in my opinion, is if you go offroad in mud or on wet grass. Maybe fresh snow offroad too or if the fresh snow exceeds your vehicles ground clearance. But for anything remotely resembling a road surface in winter, be it covered in snow, slush or ice, a good winter tyre is more than enough. (All this is ssuming we are talking of cars.)

That said, sometimes chains are required, even if you don't really need them - legislative leftover from a time before modern winter tyres. Then of course you have to obey. Offroad they can be invaluable and save the day.

EDIT: another point to remember: consult your owner's manual! There's a lot of cars out there on which you cannot fit chains, even with factory wheel/tyre combinations. It's not uncommon that only the smallest of the permitted tyre/wheel combinations has enough clearance to mount chains. It is usually suspension parts that will be the major constraint here, not the wheelwell.
 
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Have put chains regularly on Gs and trucks while in the military and also while volunteer service with the THW. Privately, I have once used chains on my w123 for legal reasons in Austria and once for getting off a wet meadow after heavy rain (designated temporary parking at an event) after I had observed other cars trying to leave getting stuck.

Practice putting on chains at least twice. Once in normal temperatures, and once in the cold. Cold fingers make everything extremely difffiicult.
You do not want unpack your chains for the first time on the shoulder of a highway, miserable from the cold with frozen fingers and when it's to dark to read the instructions. Also remember that after driving a short distance, most chains will need to be checked and re-tightened.
Chains are horrible to drive with on hard surfaces. It's loud, the vehicle reacts funny, and they vibrate. Also, chains limit your speed to 50km/h or less. And even if 50km/h are allowed, you would not want to drive that fast anyways. Trust me, it's horrible. Once you hit pavement, you will take them off.
The only real necessity for chains, in my opinion, is if you go offroad in mud or on wet grass. Maybe fresh snow offroad too or if the fresh snow exceeds your vehicles ground clearance. But for anything remotely resembling a road surface in winter, be it covered in snow, slush or ice, a good winter tyre is more than enough. (All this is ssuming we are talking of cars.)

That said, sometimes chains are required, even if you don't really need them - legislative leftover from a time before modern winter tyres. Then of course you have to obey. Offroad they can be invaluable and save the day.

EDIT: another point to remember: consult your owner's manual! There's a lot of cars out there on which you cannot fit chains, even with factory wheel/tyre combinations. It's not uncommon that only the smallest of the permitted tyre/wheel combinations has enough clearance to mount chains. It is usually suspension parts that will be the major constraint here, not the wheelwell.
In Germany, you have laws requiring 3PMSF tires during conditions of winter weather.

Here in the USA, we don't, people will call it a conspiracy if such a law mandating winter tires passes.

In CA, the law was written with bias against the flatlanders that would visit the mountains in the winter months. Flatlanders tend not to have a 3pMSF tire on their vehicle, so the law ignores the fact 3PMSF exists.

If the chains or cables do not have tensioners (whether it's rubber or automatic), then you do need to constantly check the tension on the chains. With tensioners, you just check/readjust after driving the vehicle about 50 feet, and then you're on your way. Some of the more sophisticated chains have auto-tension and auto-centering, so you just get it on, and the chain does the rest.
 
The german winter tyre mandate is relatively new - it is in effect only since a couple of years. I can still remember the days without, and the scandal when it was passed. I can also vividly remember the idiots trying to drive in snow or slush or on ice with rock-hard summer tyres. (The mandate is appropriately lax, btw - you only need winter tyre in winter conditions. Dry roads on a relatively warm day in January? No need for a desginated winter tyre. Some other countries require them during specific months, which, if you ask me, is idiotic. Middle European weather has too much variability to deduct winter tyre necessity from a specific date in the calendar.)
I am a die-hard libertarian and on principle opposed against any regulation, but in this specific case, even I must concede that the winter tyre mandate was definitely necessary.

Some specific stretches of alpine roads and in Germany and Austria require chains, and you can be fined if you don't put them on. Since forever.
So I am under the impression that these chain zones, like yours, also ignore the developments of the last 3 decades...
 
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The german winter tyre mandate is relatively new - it is in effect only since a couple of years. I can still remember the days without, and the scandal when it was passed. I can also vividly remember the idiots trying to drive in snow or slush or on ice with rock-hard summer tyres. (The mandate is appropriately lax, btw - you only need winter tyre in winter conditions. Dry roads on a relatively warm day in January? No need for a desginated winter tyre. Some other countries require them during specific months, which, if you aks me, is idiotic. Middle European weather has too much variability to deduct winter tyre necessity from a sprcific date in the calendar.)
I am a die-hard libertarian and on principle opposed against any regulation, but in this specific case, even I must concede that the winter tyre mandate was definitely necessary.

Some specific stretches of alpine roads and in Germany and Austria require chains, and you can be fined if you don't put them on. Since forever.
So I am under the impression that these chain zones, like yours, also ignore the developments of the last 3 decades...
That's why All-weather tires make more sense in certain areas.

But also, not every winter tire is a Nordic winter tire. There are winter tires (some companies call it central European winter tires) that position themselves between the summer tire and nordic winter tire, which trades deep snow and ice traction for more temperate conditions hovering around 0°C, so has better hydroplaning resistance and dry cold grip, such as Michelin Alpin, Bridgestone Blizzak LM-series, etc. So, when the snow and ice hits, tires still perform, but not as well as a Michelin X-ice or Bridgestone Blizzak WS-series etc.

And these days, with the European All-season aka NA All-weather, they usually slot below Central European winter tires, and have become an emerging category that avoids the hassle of winter tire switchover.
 
Exactly.

I have once used nordic winter tyres - when I lived in the Eifel region (remote, low population density, steep hills) and my commute had me on the road before the snow plows went through. w123 is horrendously bad in snow - rear wheel drive and not much weight on the rear axle. Nordic winter tyres were the only way I felt confident enough that my w123 would get me there under all conditions. However, with anything else than severe winter conditions, nordic winter tyres are horrible.
On all other cars, I had "only" central european winter tyres (such as the entire Michelin Alpin range - left out only the A5 -, Conti Winter Contact TS 790 and 810, Dunlop Winter Sports, Semperit Speed Grip 2 etc). Nordic winter tyres, even without studs, are perfect when you drive on packed snow and ice. They are fine in fresh snow. On dry roads at "warm" temperatures (that is when it is not freezing, they suck. They also suck in the wet. And they are not very good with old, wet snow and slush. Typically, a central european winter tyre will have a harder compound (easily possible to have winter days with +15*C to +20°C in between weeks of snow, and the tyre has to survive that), but also more negative space in the profile to aid with standing water - and slush. Slush is much more unpleasant that real snow, slush is like aquaplaning on steroids.
My parents used to live in Sweden for over a decade. Far enough in the south that climate could still be influenced by the gulf stream - some winters were just grey and barely touching 0°C, some winters you had -20°C and 1.5 metres of snow for months on end. Even there not everybody would drive nordic tyres, a lot of local cars where on central european winter tyres. I never had problems with my Michelin Alpin there - they were perfectly adequate and safe to use. If you drove 100km farther north, where roads were pretty much guaranteed to be white, of course everybody had nordic tyres.

The funny thing is that there is a lot of overlap between (european) all-seasons and european winter tyres now. The Nokian weatherproof for example in a few tests had better snow and ice performance than the reference winter tyre (Conti TS 850), and this designated winter tyre was better in the "summer" test parts than several of the all-seasons...
 
Have put chains regularly on Gs and trucks while in the military and also while volunteer service with the THW. Privately, I have once used chains on my w123 for legal reasons in Austria and once for getting off a wet meadow after heavy rain (designated temporary parking at an event) after I had observed other cars trying to leave getting stuck.

Practice putting on chains at least twice. Once in normal temperatures, and once in the cold. Cold fingers make everything extremely difficult.
You do not want unpack your chains for the first time on the shoulder of a highway, miserable from the cold with frozen fingers and when it's to dark to read the instructions. Also remember that after driving a short distance, most chains will need to be checked and re-tightened.
Chains are horrible to drive with on hard surfaces. It's loud, the vehicle reacts funny, and they vibrate. Also, chains limit your speed to 50km/h or less. And even if 50km/h are allowed, you would not want to drive that fast anyways. Trust me, it's horrible. Once you hit pavement, you will take them off.
The only real necessity for chains, in my opinion, is if you go offroad in mud or on wet grass. Maybe fresh snow offroad too or if the fresh snow exceeds your vehicles ground clearance. But for anything remotely resembling a road surface in winter, be it covered in snow, slush or ice, a good winter tyre is more than enough. (All this is ssuming we are talking of cars.)

That said, sometimes chains are required, even if you don't really need them - legislative leftover from a time before modern winter tyres. Then of course you have to obey. Offroad they can be invaluable and save the day.

EDIT: another point to remember: consult your owner's manual! There's a lot of cars out there on which you cannot fit chains, even with factory wheel/tyre combinations. It's not uncommon that only the smallest of the permitted tyre/wheel combinations has enough clearance to mount chains. It is usually suspension parts that will be the major constraint here, not the wheelwell.

I've practiced in my driveway with my Super Z6. I've unpacked my Super Z and although it's slightly different in connector type I have no doubt I can do it as it's almost the same. Maybe I'll practice. I'd have difficulty finding that kind of weather around here. I wouldn't expect it until I'm up at higher altitudes.

The requirement here is usually "type S clearance" which my cables meet.

Also - what I've got don't require retightening. They have maybe one adjustment per connection although I'm not sure it's needed. They're generally loose without the tighteners, but with the tighteners all slack is supposed to be taken out and the connectors are all pulled taught. I mentioned it before - two bent keyholes on the inside of the tire, and a hook/link pair on the outside. I found a photo of the outside although it hasn't been tightened yet. Once it's tightened the manufacturer claims that they don't need any further adjustment or checking. I'd probably check anyways to make sure that they're properly centered to make sure they're on securely.

Inside%20Fastener%20Z.png


When tightened the cable is pulled towards the center of the wheel. This photo is a bit off because it shows a bent keyhole on the outside when mine are clearly that hook and captive link I posted.

z.png


My first time driving in the snow I bought a set of ladder cables. They didn't come with any sort of chain tighteners but the instructions said that optional ones could be used. But the basic directions were to tighten it as far as one could do so manually, drive a bit, and then retighten. Without some sort of chain tightener, the only means to secure them were to pull hard and then fold/bend the cable end over. Didn't seem very secure. I tried following the instructions and couldn't get them on following them exactly. My understanding is that they should be laid down and then driven over. The instructions said to lay them over the top and connect them at the bottom, which was pretty much impossible to do.
 
My first time driving in the snow I bought a set of ladder cables. They didn't come with any sort of chain tighteners but the instructions said that optional ones could be used. But the basic directions were to tighten it as far as one could do so manually, drive a bit, and then retighten. Without some sort of chain tightener, the only means to secure them were to pull hard and then fold/bend the cable end over. Didn't seem very secure. I tried following the instructions and couldn't get them on following them exactly. My understanding is that they should be laid down and then driven over. The instructions said to lay them over the top and connect them at the bottom, which was pretty much impossible to do.

Yes, sounds like traditional chains to me. Some chains you lay out before the tyre, then drive onto them, stop in the center and then wrap them around. Other types, esppecially for larger vehicles (trucks), come with and additional short chain as a mounting aid. You put on this short, single chain diagonally over the tyre. Then you take the proper snow chain, unfold it (make sure it's on its correct side, and place it behind the wheel. Then pull the chain over the tyre from behind hook the snow chain onto the mountin chain. Drive one tyre rotation, close snow chain, remove mounting chain, tense snow chain. This one definitely requires practice.

Your chains look much easier than that. (y) (They also look more fragile, and like complete hell to clean, so I would not dare to use them offroad).
 
Yes, sounds like traditional chains to me. Some chains you lay out before the tyre, then drive onto them, stop in the center and then wrap them around. Other types, esppecially for larger vehicles (trucks), come with and additional short chain as a mounting aid. You put on this short, single chain diagonally over the tyre. Then you take the proper snow chain, unfold it (make sure it's on its correct side, and place it behind the wheel. Then pull the chain over the tyre from behind hook the snow chain onto the mountin chain. Drive one tyre rotation, close snow chain, remove mounting chain, tense snow chain. This one definitely requires practice.

Your chains look much easier than that. (y) (They also look more fragile, and like complete hell to clean, so I would not dare to use them offroad).

Not really. Just hose them off and then grease them afterwards to protect them from rusting. But these types of cables are very easy, although it might require fairly long arms to reach around the tire and make the top connection on the inside. I think I got the procedure wrong earlier. The hook and link is on the inside since it's flatter than the bent keyhole for more clearance. This one is slightly different - Peerless has the Super Z, Super Z6/Z8, and Z-Chain. But the main thing that make it a breeze is the three connection points where one just sweeps it under the wheel and then fixes it at the top. I suppose it might be possible to make a ladder chain like that with a tensioner, but I haven't seen one. I think the diagonal cables also make it easier since there's a fairly big "hole" that will eventually self-adjust with the tensioner pulling on it.



Looks like the Z-Chain doesn't specify tensioners but rather recommends driving then re-tightening.
 
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