Any 0w30 users here?

[Averroes]

Also, there are a couple of 0W30s on my short list for future oils to try. Others have already mentioned them above.

Mobil 1 ESP 0W30​

Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX​

Both good oils. Currently running the LX in my 370z. Also ran the M1 in the 370z, car couldn’t tell the diff between the two. Enjoy!

 

[yowps3]

The fact it's not SN Plus or SP doesn't mean much, it's either not tested or certified as SN+/SP, MB229.52 cert takes care of LSPI.
Penn Plat Euro LX is made in Germany and is supposedly a rebottled Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 oil that isn't widely available in NA and may simply have not been tested as SP oil.

How does the MB spec 229.52 mitigate LSPI? The VOA analysis of this oil I've seen have it at 2000ppm Ca with nil Mg and Mo. Although it does have 400ppm Boron.

This is not a typical LSPI mitigating formulation.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

How does the MB spec 229.52 mitigate LSPI? The VOA analysis of this oil I've seen have it at 2000ppm Ca with nil Mg and Mo. Although it does have 400ppm Boron.

This is not a typical LSPI mitigating formulation.

If these oils really mitigate LSPI why don't they give you a LSPI warranty. They just keep pushing this engineering problem into the customers lap!

 

[bhvrdr]

PP Euro LX meets the required Fiat 9.55535-GS1 that Alfa calls for. It’s perfectly suitable.

That's not what Alfa calls for anymore. You're incorrect.

They changed the manuals and they put in big bold letters they call for SN Plus or SP


2020 plus manuals....

2017 through 2019....

 

[bhvrdr]

Someone named "Roland" that works on the "Technical Helpdesk" answering random email inquiries wrote that Pennzoil Euro LX 0w30 doesn't mitigate LSPI. "SHELL" didn't tell you this.
Some of the certifications found on the container do cover LSPI, as others have pointed out.
I've run Euro LX 0w30 in two different Mini JCW engines, which are BMW B48 variants (228 HP version as well as a 300+ HP version) with no problems.
I trust the certifications on the container that include LSPI mitigation over Roland's email.

Nope. 229.52 did not always have an lspi test. M1 also never took 229.52 off their esp formula that didn't mitigate lspi. There is no other certification on that bottle that includes lspi testing and the formulation of the oil itself does not indicate it is lspi mitigating. Add to that Shell themselves claim it is not lspi mitigating. No offense but I think we should listen to Shell before randoms on bitog lol. That includes me. Dint listen to me. Listen to shell

Or you could just read the Alfa Romeo manual....it makes it easy. It has big bolded letters saying to use SN Plus or SP or any damage that occurs may not be covered by warranty. No need for anyone to be creative. They have owners manuals so you don't have to be


Here are two oils I use in my two Alfa Romeos that have the 2.0l. the third is amsoil that self proclaims to also meet specs

If you put pp euro LX next to them it would be the one that doesn't fit in.


Here is the piston out of a Giulia 2.0l that used m1 esp prior to the SP formulation change.

 

[RamFan]

That's not what Alfa calls for anymore.

Anymore being the key word. The manuals have changed quite a bit over the years due to changes in the API standards, but the Fiat spec is still called for in earlier MYs. Below are from manuals I just pulled off the Alfa site for 2018 and 2023. I get this can be confusing (because it is) but you’re spreading misinformation with some of what you’re claiming.

2023

2018

 

[bhvrdr]

Anymore being the key word. The manuals have changed quite a bit over the years due to changes in the API standards, but the Fiat spec is still called for in earlier MYs. Below are from manuals I just pulled off the Alfa site for 2018 and 2023. I get this can be confusing (because it is) but you’re spreading misinformation with some of what you’re claiming.

2023
View attachment 167309
2018
View attachment 167310

I'm spreading the correct information as your screenshot agrees with.

The old 2018 manual...

The back corrected one you just posted....

Your own screenshot shows API SN Plus in it.

FCA back changed all manuals immediately when API SN Plus oils hit the shelves in the USA.

Here you can read more about it.

https://www.giuliaforums.com/thread...ications-sn-versus-sn-plus-and-ms13340.50969/

The 2019 plus manuals couldn't be more clear that SN Plus and SP was added even though the old outdated "specifications" never changed....

........


Gs1 and ms13340 have no test at all for LSPI which is why SN Plus and SP was added to all manuals. Gs1 and ms13340 are not even certifications oil companies have to apply to....unlike c40, 229.52, vw504, dexos, etc etc etc the FCA gs1 and ms13340 are guidelines that require zero submission for certification. The manual requires sn Plus and SP as you can see.



......

None of this really requires leeps in logic though.

These are small displacement turbocharged engines.

SN Plus and SP were designed to protect these engines.

All giulia and stelvio manuals now call for either sn Plus or SP.

Easy peasy.

 

[Titan]

View attachment 167274




If you put pp euro LX next to them it would be the one that doesn't fit in.

To help you make your point, although I don't have a virgin sample my Blackstone used sample of LX 0w30 at 5000 miles had single-digit Molybdenum, 230 Boron, 1600 Calcium, 10 Magnesium, 650 Phosphorous. You are correct in that the LX 0w30 doesn't fit in with the values shown on those oils (again, mine is a used sample unlike these you listed).
I've asked the question "what Ca level is associated with mitigating LSPI"? I haven't received an answer other than "lower than usual". So, I imagine it's a combination of factors and not only Ca.
One additional point: if oil isn't contaminating the combustion chamber, why would the oil composition matter with regard to LSPI mitigation? This is a bit like the SAPS question...if the engine isn't sending oil into the exhaust system, does it actually matter if the oil is "low SAPS"?

 

[bhvrdr]

To help you make your point, although I don't have a virgin sample my Blackstone used sample of LX 0w30 at 5000 miles had single-digit Molybdenum, 230 Boron, 1600 Calcium, 10 Magnesium, 650 Phosphorous. You are correct in that the LX 0w30 doesn't fit in with the values shown on those oils (again, mine is a used sample unlike these you listed).
I've asked the question "what Ca level is associated with mitigating LSPI"? I haven't received an answer other than "lower than usual". So, I imagine it's a combination of factors and not only Ca.
One additional point: if oil isn't contaminating the combustion chamber, why would the oil composition matter with regard to LSPI mitigation? This is a bit like the SAPS question...if the engine isn't sending oil into the exhaust system, does it actually matter if the oil is "low SAPS"?

There is always going to be an amount of oil (whether liquod or vapor) in the combustion chamber. Interestingly viscosity is not a factor, btw.

Lspi is not related to old cars with bad rings.

It's been predominantly found on newer drivetrains as it's in more modern times we have tgdi engines with very small turbos designed to make 25psi to 30psi boost by only 2000rpm and transmissions that are programmed for fuel economy with 8 to 10 gears and 5 or more of them overdrive gears.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0263224120304991

 

[Titan]

Lspi is not related to old cars with bad rings.

It's been predominantly found on newer drivetrains as it's in more modern times we have tgdi engines with very small turbos designed to make 25psi to 30psi boost by only 2000rpm and transmissions that are programmed for fuel economy with 8 to 10 gears and 5 or more of them overdrive gears.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0263224120304991

Thanks! Nice general article, but, with no specific limits defined. As both the article and you state, it's a modern engine phenomenon associated with smaller engines, DI, high number of gears, and high boost at low RPMs. There appears to be no hard definition of XX Ca content or even RPMs or Boost Pressure. It's a combination of them all that results in the tendency to have LSPI. The ability of the fuel injection system to adjust to a premature ignition event by spraying more fuel as a cooling mechanism isn't mentioned, but, perhaps that should be.
My GUESS is that some manufacturers have done a better job at mechanical design and software interaction than others, but, why not use an LSPI mitigating oil mixture if you have one of the "smaller, high boost at low RPM" engines and therefore select SN+ or SP rated oils. BMW software is sensitive to alert to ignition-related incidents, and I've had none with three different B48 engine variants, and these engines provide high boost at even lower than the 2500 RPMs mentioned in the article, but, I don't think the B48 variants produce the 25-30 lbs of boost mentioned in the article. (Outside of LSPI, I've always heard boost over the low 20's and you're asking for trouble unless you've made other adjustments to your engine and management systems...another anecdote.)
Like you said: use the oil with the approval required by your manufacturer to be sure. But, running a 2 liter boosted engine with 8 gears when not using a specifically-stated SN+ or SP approved oils doesn't automatically mean you will experience problems. It depends on MANY variables that don't appear to be precisely defined...most logically because it's a combination of factors....perhaps including simple things like intercooler effectiveness...the hotter the intake temps, the more likely a premature ignition event.

 

[bhvrdr]

Thanks! Nice general article, but, with no specific limits defined. As both the article and you state, it's a modern engine phenomenon associated with smaller engines, DI, high number of gears, and high boost at low RPMs. There appears to be no hard definition of XX Ca content or even RPMs or Boost Pressure. It's a combination of them all that results in the tendency to have LSPI. The ability of the fuel injection system to adjust to a premature ignition event by spraying more fuel as a cooling mechanism isn't mentioned, but, perhaps that should be.
My GUESS is that some manufacturers have done a better job at mechanical design and software interaction than others, but, why not use an LSPI mitigating oil mixture if you have one of the "smaller, high boost at low RPM" engines and therefore select SN+ or SP rated oils. BMW software is sensitive to alert to ignition-related incidents, and I've had none with three different B48 engine variants, and these engines provide high boost at even lower than the 2500 RPMs mentioned in the article, but, I don't think the B48 variants produce the 25-30 lbs of boost mentioned in the article. (Outside of LSPI, I've always heard boost over the low 20's and you're asking for trouble unless you've made other adjustments to your engine and management systems...another anecdote.)
Like you said: use the oil with the approval required by your manufacturer to be sure. But, running a 2 liter boosted engine with 8 gears when not using a specifically-stated SN+ or SP approved oils doesn't automatically mean you will experience problems. It depends on MANY variables that don't appear to be precisely defined...most logically because it's a combination of factors....perhaps including simple things like intercooler effectiveness...the hotter the intake temps, the more likely a premature ignition event.

Yes absolute it's a multifactorial issue as many, perhaps most are. Low hanging fruit are sn Plus and SP oils. Easy to do.

And unfortunately knock sensors do not protect against LSPI. They'd actually make it worse if they did as they retard timing. A good thing for regular knock. A bad thing for lspi.

 

[HighMileage]

A couple of weeks ago, I did an oil change in my ‘06 Ford Ranger with some old 0w30 green German Castrol from my stash. I have enough for a couple more oil changes. With 310,000 miles on it, the Ranger loved the GC.