Antifreeze for unique car.

[T-Keith]

OK, I've read most of the posts concerning Dexcool and G05 including the great article vvk posted. However, I'm still unsure on which to use.

I have an 87 Buick Lesabre with a 97 3800 in it, so some parts are old and some are new.

With the old engine it got regular antifreeze. When I got the new engine it had green stuff in it(even though I think it should have been DEXCOOL) so I user Supertech (the old green stuff).

It's due for a flush and refill but what should I use?

 

[patel]

I did use Havoline dex-cool from wall-mart in my 94 olds 88 LSS. It had green radiator fluid. But I drain untill clear run and then I changed to dex-cool. I check after two days, radiator cap, It looks clean eventhough there might green in cooling system.

I thinkg change every two year any coolant will not be problem for CAR.

Read your manual.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by patel:
I did use Havoline dex-cool from wall-mart in my 94 olds 88 LSS. It had green radiator fluid. But I drain untill clear run and then I changed to dex-cool. I check after two days, radiator cap, It looks clean eventhough there might green in cooling system.

I thinkg change every two year any coolant will not be problem for CAR.

Read your manual.

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The manual won't apply because I have parts from two different cars.

For those who might wonder, the radiator is I believe all aluminum, not sure on the heater core(which is clogged), and the engine is cast iron with an aluminum intake manifold.

-T

 

[Matt_S]

GM switched to DexCool in '96, so that engine would have come with that from the factory. This should be compatible with your aluminum radiator and your heater core as well.

I just did a green-back-to-Dexcool switch. What I did was run some Prestone Super Cleaner twice(the Cleaner, not the Flush), then flush the engine well and undo the knock sensors to drain the engine block, in addition to the rest of the cooling system. The sensors are at the bottom of the block, just below the exhaust manifold. You get at them from underneath. If the '97 3800 is similar to the '00, the rear sensor might be difficult to get at, as it's between the engine and trans, but I understand it's possible with a crows foot socket. I wound up not doing the rear one on my car due to lack of access or proper tools. Torque to 14 lb-ft when installing.

Anyway, I also blew out the heater core with air and undid the thermostat housing to run even more water through the engine block. In short, I flushed the living daylights out of it.

After this, I buttoned everything up, I refilled with 6 qts Prestone Extended Life, Dexcool approved and as much distilled water as it would take (about 2 qts). This left me with 4 qts of tap water, mostly due to not being able to remove that rear sensor. I'm not terribly worried about that, though.

 

[irq3]

I would use the new Prestone long life anti-freeze in the yellow bottle. It is a new formula and is backwards compatable with Dexcool and the "original" green stuff. Even though the new formula is green, they dye it that way for marketing purposes. Give the engine a good flush to maximize the long life capability.

 

[Ray H]

"Old" Prestone green is only available currently as leftover stock. Prestone no longer makes it at all. The replacement green in yellow jugs is chemically the same as Prestone's DEX-COOL - just dyed a different color and not carrying the tradmarked GM label. Oh, and it's cheaper, too, by about a buck. Even cheaper yet (by about two additional bucks) is the identical Super Tech extended life brew that's made for WalMart by Prestone. Whatever you use, if the old stuff drains a dirty butt-ugly color with sediment, use a cleaner to dissolve the corrosion (you cannot protect metal that's locked with an impenetrable layer of corrosion that's continuing to erode the metal underneath) and flush (with distilled water), run the engine until it attains normal operating tempeature, and drain, repeating the whole process until the radiator drains perfectly clear. Then, and only then, can you safely assume the cooling system is clean and contains only residual distilled water. If you're at all suspicious of the radiator cap and the thermostat, REPLACE 'EM, now! Pour in your antifreeze/coolant brand of choice and adjust the concentration with distilled water. Boring as heII? Yep, but it's the right way to do this job if you haven't kept up with your coolong system's needs. Even radiator shops and car dealerships rarely bother - it's bad for repeat business.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:
"Old" Prestone green is only available currently as leftover stock. Prestone no longer makes it at all. The replacement green in yellow jugs is chemically the same as Prestone's DEX-COOL - just dyed a different color and not carrying the tradmarked GM label. Oh, and it's cheaper, too, by about a buck. Even cheaper yet (by about two additional bucks) is the identical Super Tech extended life brew that's made for WalMart by Prestone. Whatever you use, if the old stuff drains a dirty butt-ugly color with sediment, use a cleaner to dissolve the corrosion (you cannot protect metal that's locked with an impenetrable layer of corrosion that's continuing to erode the metal underneath) and flush (with distilled water), run the engine until it attains normal operating tempeature, and drain, repeating the whole process until the radiator drains perfectly clear. Then, and only then, can you safely assume the cooling system is clean and contains only residual distilled water. If you're at all suspicious of the radiator cap and the thermostat, REPLACE 'EM, now! Pour in your antifreeze/coolant brand of choice and adjust the concentration with distilled water. Boring as heII? Yep, but it's the right way to do this job if you haven't kept up with your coolong system's needs. Even radiator shops and car dealerships rarely bother - it's bad for repeat business.

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Thanks for the information. What would make this antifreeze a better choice then true DEXCOOL or G05 other then price. I have green coolant in there now so no DEXCOOL sludge.

-T

 

[lobo11]

Talked to a radiator shop around here and they are not even using Dex-Cool anymore, but using Peak Global Brand Extended Life instead. It says it is compatible with all anti-freexe, no matter the coller. I had the infamous tan gum issue so I am having a flusha nd fill with the GLobal stuff, and probably in 2-3 years I will switch to the straight green-stuff unless I really like how this global stuff hangs out. I have just heard too many bad stories about switching from Dex to a non-compatible straight green coolant. My though is go compatible with this stuff,a nd then if I want to go green later.

 

[Ray H]

T-Keith, I'm confused by your use of the term "true DEXCOOL". Any brand antifreeze that is licensed to display the "GM DEX-COOL Approved" logo is a true DEX-COOL as far as GM is concerned. (It's their trademark, so they oughta know...) There may be minor variations in corrosion inhibitor chemistry across producers, but they all have to be intercompatible, and organic acid technology in order to pass GM's muster to be licensed. I suppose the case could be made that the "Mr. Goodwrench" DEX-COOL extended life antifreeze/coolant concentrate at GM dealership parts counters could be properly defined as the "true DEXCOOL", but, it is made for GM by Havoline and reputed to be the very same forumula as the Havoline brand DEX-COOL available through regular retail channels. Whatever the case is for so-called "DEXCOOL sludge", I'm not convinced it's a fault of the DEX-COOL technology - regardless of brand. I've run Havoline-made DEX-COOL in both a 2000 Cavalier (which still has its factory fill) and a '96 Accord with no sludging in either - and I've monitored carefully in each case, so it's not a universal "problem" that could be layed at the feet of Havoline. I'd bank more on some infamous GM gasket problems* allowing air intrusion that have been discussed at length on this site. No antifreeze, and that includes Zerex G-05, can protect when the integrity of the cooling system sealing is compromised. In any event I just put my money where my mouth is: I drained, fully flushed as I described, and installed the new WalMart extended life yellowish, "lime-green" brew in my 2003 Sonata V6 one week ago. (just what the world needed - a highly toxic, sweet-tasting liquid that looks to kids like lime Cool-Aid!) So, time'll tell! The deeper green factory-fill drained ever so slightly hazy after a bit less than 2 years' use (though it was 25 months since the build date on the door jam). That mild haziness leads me to believe that Hyundai's factory fill was not an extended life type antifreeze/coolant. (When I drained the Accord's factory fill coolant, it drained absolutely haze-free and clear - just the green tint of the dye Honda antifreeze/coolant used at the time. This was a good thing because I misread the maintenance interval in my owner's manual. It called for three years, and I waited until into the fifth year...

That Honda stuff had to have been something other than the conventional nitrated, borated, phosphated, hydrated-silicates green-snot-of-death for me to duck a bullet that easily!)

*certain "V" type pushrod engines of GM manufacture seem to be prone to intake manifold gasket and/or cylinder head gasket failures after 60,000 miles or so. Your 3.8L V6 is among those, so monitor your coolant level very frequently and carefully. There were also some issues with radiator caps supplied on GM cars a few years back. Might wanna check with your dealer if yours is one of the suspect ones and replace it if so.

 

[T-Keith]

This article seems to imply that there are three common types of antifreeze sold today. DEXCOOL which is a OAT, G-05 which is a HOAT, and "traditional" anti freeze. As I understand it, the new extended life anti-freeze is "DEXCOOL compatible", but contains different ingredients then "traditional DEXCOOL"(the ones that aren't compatible with traditional anti freeze). Obviously there is some difference since this new extended life is supposedly compatible with all anti freeze.

Also, I have never heard of a head gasket or intake gasket problem on a supercharger 3800, except maybe in very high boost conditions. Maybe your thinking about the 3.1/3.4 or the few NA 3800s with a manufacturing problem on the plastic intake.(which were recalled).

-T

 

[Matt_S]

Even the original Dexcool formula was "compatible" in the sense that you wouldn't do immediate damage if mixed with other coolants. GM states in its owner's manuals that you lose the extended life properties if you mix the coolant and strongly cautions against using anything else, but doesn't explicitly prohibit mixing saying that the mixture would need to be changed at 24 months/30,000 miles. Prestone says something very similar on their web site. What I'm saying is that I don't think the Prestone Extended Life, whether dyed green or orange, is any more or less compatible than the original Havoline Dexcool used by GM.

Of course, I would still say it's not a wise idea to mix coolants, no matter the type. Mixing coolant, as Forrest Gump might say, "is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get."

 

[T-Keith]

You may be on to something there. Most websites I found said that you could use almost anything for a topup, but almost all of them recomended completely flushing the system before switching types.

Anyway, I think I'll flush the system with the prestone cleaner and fill with supertech and distilled water. Anyone see a problem with that?

-T

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:
As I understand it, the new extended life anti-freeze is "DEXCOOL compatible", but contains different ingredients then "traditional DEXCOOL"(the ones that aren't compatible with traditional anti freeze). Obviously there is some difference since this new extended life is supposedly compatible with all anti freeze.

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According to the Havoline DEX-COOL MSDS, the Havoline "GM DEX-COOL Approved" antifreeze/coolant is formulated with ethylene glycol, diethylene glycol, potassium 2-ethyl hexanoate and water. The Prestone "GM DEX-COOL Approved", the new Prestone yellow jug, and the new SUPER TECH extended life antifreezes are all formulated with ethylene glycol, diethylene glycol, sodium 2-ethyl hexanoate, sodium neodecanoate (and probably water for solubility issues) according to information on the backs of the respective jugs. The potassium and sodium organic acid salts are the "OAT" corrosion inhibitors. I question whether the substitution of sodium for the an-ion, postassium, makes any appreciable difference in chemical stability. When DEX-COOL antifreeze/coolant was introduced, there were few, if any, "OAT" alternatives, hence the warning not to mix with what was presumed by Havoline to be the dominent alternative - hydrated silicates based antifreeze/coolants. Havoline's caveat was accompanied with the advice that failure to follow its dictum wouldn't result in dire consequences, but rather a loss of DEX-COOL's extended life properties as Matt_S pointed out to 24 mos./30,000 miles. Prestone and SUPER TECH, however, point out that mixing their extended life fluids with other brand extended life fluids will not incur a loss of extended life properties. Both, however, recommend that, for a changeout to their extended life fluids from a traditional hydrated silicates fluid, the change must be preceeded by a drain and flush of the old fluid in order to maximize the extended life properties of their respective fluids. My opinion? The "completer" the pre-flush, the better, and adding anyone else's "OAT" or "HOAT" fluid to Havoline DEX-COOL in a properly functioning and clean cooling system would not result in loss of either's extended corrosion protection properties either (though the resulting hue from two different color dyes might appear alarming). I'm also aware that Ford warns against against mixing DEX-COOL with their (Zerex made) G-05. I happen to believe Ford's position is either baseless or market driven. But, that's my pure, unaldulterated, personal opinion.

[ September 10, 2004, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

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I'm also aware that Ford warns against against mixing DEX-COOL with their (Zerex made) G-05. I happen to believe Ford's position is either baseless or market driven. But, that's my pure, unaldulterated, personal opinion.

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It's probably based on the fact that G-05 contains silicates, which cause some problems with OATs like DexCool.

 

[Ray H]

I wish I could find a definitive source for that. Everything I've read is that the only "problem" with mixing conventional hydrated silicates chemistry beyond ~15% with "OAT" chemistry is the loss of the "OAT" fluid's extended life properties.