Anti Oxidation and Euro Oils

[T101]

Mobil also struggled introducing SN+, Castrol has most of it's products with flash points at 210°C and some with 198... Motul didn't have modern standsrds for several years. Fuchs is all recommendations. With sporadic warni g that it is only compatible with DPF only with low sulfur fuels.

Yes, and?

I don't want to mention Amsoil, how much is recommendations and how much it is actual approvals and licenses. They caught up in the last year and a half... Somewhat...

Your opinion based on feelings on my fact based statement doesn't weigh much.
Toyota had GF-4/GF-5 5W-20 oils at the shelves of the dealers in Bulgaria while Motul didn't have one in their world site. That's some 10++ years after Ford and Honda began making engines requiring those oils. I mean, Motul didn't know there are millions of Fords and Hondas out there?

Those brands survive only due to the fact that there are people stupid enough to buy them without the actual required standards, approvals and licenses.

And yes, Fuchs costed me a DPF on a Skoda 1.6CR, several non ILSAC sae-20 and 30 costed me a valve train, another few costed me a set of lifters and rockers. And the other thankfully just money and time to read deep into a topic I could have lived without knowing about.
Friends and colleagues killed engines with 6k mi / year oci with presumably good oils.

You can jump all you want, if it doesn't have the approvals and licenses it's junk.

And yes, this is the history of the past 17 years. No, oils are not improving. Additives may be improving.

 

[edyvw]

Mobil also struggled introducing SN+, Castrol has most of it's products with flash points at 210°C and some with 198... Motul didn't have modern standsrds for several years. Fuchs is all recommendations. With sporadic warni g that it is only compatible with DPF only with low sulfur fuels.

Yes, and?

I don't want to mention Amsoil, how much is recommendations and how much it is actual approvals and licenses. They caught up in the last year and a half... Somewhat...

Your opinion based on feelings on my fact based statement doesn't weigh much.
Toyota had GF-4/GF-5 5W-20 oils at the shelves of the dealers in Bulgaria while Motul didn't have one in their world site. That's some 10++ years after Ford and Honda began making engines requiring those oils. I mean, Motul didn't know there are millions of Fords and Hondas out there?

Those brands survive only due to the fact that there are people stupid enough to buy them without the actual required standards, approvals and licenses.

And yes, Fuchs costed me a DPF on a Skoda 1.6CR, several non ILSAC sae-20 and 30 costed me a valve train, another few costed me a set of lifters and rockers. And the other thankfully just money and time to read deep into a topic I could have lived without knowing about.
Friends and colleagues killed engines with 6k mi / year oci with presumably good oils.

You can jump all you want, if it doesn't have the approvals and licenses it's junk.

And yes, this is the history of the past 17 years. No, oils are not improving. Additives may be improving.

Mobil1 did not struggle. Tell us more about that (facts and data) or just stop wasting our time and space.
Castrol uses different ASTM. Such careful eye should know (see) that.
So far the only thing you have is to talk from the garage with your buddies.
If you have some facts and data to show, trust me, we are more than interested to see.
If not, get new hobby (and I seriously mean this).

Also this: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact

 

[OVERKILL]

Mobil also struggled introducing SN+,

That's just nonsense. Mobil didn't even have to reformulate for SN Plus or SP, where are you pulling this stuff out of? You realize Mobil is ON the API right?

It's odd seeing somebody from Europe squirm and wiggle about the importance of API approvals (and making bizarre and baseless assertions in the process) while those are seen as the "minimum" by which an oil is judged. The Euro approvals (A40 for example) are all far more stringent than the API ones.

What you are likely observing is brands that are VERY quick to introduce the latest API standards on this side of the pond lagging with their Euro offerings... In Europe. Which should surprise nobody. European cars typically call for their own approvals, often not even mentioning an API performance requirement because it isn't relevant given the ACEA and their own standards.

If somebody is running a non-LL oil in an LL application (trying to get back to the theme of the thread after this wild detour) then they are going to have problems. Famously, this was an issue for VW dealers in North America using Castrol Syntec 5w-30 (ILSAC formula, API) because it was cheaper and easy to get, in cars that called for a VW approved Euro lube that met the requirements for extended drains. The result was massive amounts of sludge and varnish.

The OLM's in modern cars are often complex systems that calculate the duration of the interval using engine hours, idle hours, fuel consumed, time, mileage, load, time at different temperatures...etc. And this is predicated on the use of a spec lubricant. Ergo, following the OLM that's calibrated for an LL oil while using some plain Jane API SN Plus product isn't going to go well.

 

[Astro14]

I think the points have been made.