Anti Oxidation and Euro Oils

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Your irony is pointless. Even only below -10C the differences are very significant. In the summer we are splitting hairs about fractions of the second quicker lubrication.


and the only acceptable in the test is rated -48C.
I have made cold starts at -26C - back then I had Motul E-tech 0W-40 in the engine.
Often I have to start below -10C and sometimes around -20C.

Educate yourselves.
No actual car owner should ever use LL - anything, or if he does, it should be used at normal intervals;
Nothing except actual full synthetic oil should ever be used in an owned automobile;
Since on the market there are oils that meet all standards and are actually ILSAC, DEXOS and etc. licensed and have pour points below -50C and flash points above 230C (some even more) - no other lubricant should ever be used;
Long drain intervals, LL service oils, etc. talking about costs should be permissible only between professional fleet manages of fleets of leased vehicles that are expected to be fully used up technically in the lease period and sold at minimal residual value to junk yards or for scrap. those are rental cars, big companies who lease company cars, etc.
->A person who owns or is going to own their vehicle should always be advised to do 6 months / 5k miles OCI with the actual best fully synthetic licensed and approved oil.
People come here and read nonsense, then rely on it.

15 years ago I have read that the modular 4.6-3V mustang is better off with SAE-30 or even-40 and tonns of nonsense.
Later, breakdown after breakdown the forum has came to some knowledge... that for instance the hot idle pressure with 5W-20 is 65psi - 4.5 bar and the hot 2k rpm pressure is 5.2 bar - 75psi... minimum... and everything against lighter weight oils is pure nonsense.

The LL myth is being presently busted throughout the planet by dealers and independent shops. - impossible with mineral based oil, even partially mineral based. Almost impossible with synthetics.

And comes someone to claim that an oil that's officially recognized as low quality engine breaker had stood unoxidized for 5k mi in a you know an M-powered BMW... and the M-power engine stood broosed and unprotected.

Come to your senses and use actual empirical data from practice.

Well, I started engines as low as -47, but I am wondering have you ever heard of this. Granted not on YouTube, but still:
 
UOA's are not showing high levels of oxidation at 7k or even 10k miles. At least in the United States.

Does your market have a problem over counterfeit products?
Just like T101, I am from Bulgaria, but I've lived in the US for over 15 years now and I can say, for sure, that there is more counterfeit products in the US, than any other place in the EU.
That said, there are great oils (RedLine, Amsoil, Ravenol, Castrol) here that can go for 10000mi easy, but, given the price of the engine oils in the US, (often less than a meal for a gallon of oil) I don't see the point of extended oil intervals.
May be it's just me, but I've never run more than 12000mi interval, using synthetic Shell rotella T6, on my 15L Cummins ISX or the 14L Cummins N14.
Internal combustion engines, by design, will always have some blow by, which will put soot in the oil and it doesn't matter how good the oil can keep the soot in suspension, it will saturate quite quickly and start oxidizing.
On the other hand, a well engineered engine ( Japanese ) will go for over half a million miles using nothing but dino oil.
That brings me to another point - doesn't matter how good of an oil you use, if the engine is an over complicated German creation, It WILL fail !
 
Just like T101, I am from Bulgaria, but I've lived in the US for over 15 years now and I can say, for sure, that there is more counterfeit products in the US, than any other place in the EU.
That said, there are great oils (RedLine, Amsoil, Ravenol, Castrol) here that can go for 10000mi easy, but, given the price of the engine oils in the US, (often less than a meal for a gallon of oil) I don't see the point of extended oil intervals.
May be it's just me, but I've never run more than 12000mi interval, using synthetic Shell rotella T6, on my 15L Cummins ISX or the 14L Cummins N14.
Internal combustion engines, by design, will always have some blow by, which will put soot in the oil and it doesn't matter how good the oil can keep the soot in suspension, it will saturate quite quickly and start oxidizing.
On the other hand, a well engineered engine ( Japanese ) will go for over half a million miles using nothing but dino oil.
That brings me to another point - doesn't matter how good of an oil you use, if the engine is an over complicated German creation, It WILL fail !
I am dead.
Tell us more about those counterfeit oils? Where? From where? Price?
And I know several Japanese engines that would disagree with you.
 
Haha, yes, a lot,
Mostly not about oil:)
@edyvw - may be you're dead :)
Seriously, there is a lot counterfeits online - Amazon comes to mind...
...and yes, I'm not going into specific Japanese engines - there are better and worse ones, but nothing as bad as a VW or a BMW :)
 
Seems Japanese cars do accept neglect and owner abuse more than German cars. So their appeal to the average owner is quite understandable.
 
Haha, yes, a lot,
Mostly not about oil:)
@edyvw - may be you're dead :)
Seriously, there is a lot counterfeits online - Amazon comes to mind...
...and yes, I'm not going into specific Japanese engines - there are better and worse ones, but nothing as bad as a VW or a BMW :)
Yeah sure.
And no, counterfeits are not as common as in EU, especially eastern part of EU. You can stumble on counterfeit Castrol etc. on gas stations, major store chains, here you can’t.
 
Haha, yes, a lot,
Mostly not about oil:)
@edyvw - may be you're dead :)
Seriously, there is a lot counterfeits online - Amazon comes to mind...
...and yes, I'm not going into specific Japanese engines - there are better and worse ones, but nothing as bad as a VW or a BMW :)
Ahh ya. Amazon in general. Yes I can see that because of so many sellers are from China. In any case I'm talking about oil specifically. The gentleman claimed that LL oils would oxidize in less than 5k miles because they were not true synthetics. These oils are also used in the US market and UOA's do not support that claim regarding oxidation at even 7k or 10k miles. This lack of support in the US lead me to wonder if counterfeits are the issue in Bulgeria.
 
Ahh ya. Amazon in general. Yes I can see that because of so many sellers are from China. In any case I'm talking about oil specifically. The gentleman claimed that LL oils would oxidize in less than 5k miles because they were not true synthetics. These oils are also used in the US market and UOA's do not support that claim regarding oxidation at even 7k or 10k miles. This lack of support in the US lead me to wonder if counterfeits are the issue in Bulgeria.
But he doesn’t offer any factual data about oxidation. His determination that it is oxidation is based on assumption. Nothing else.
 
I don't care about oxidation. - to clarify.
The worst generalization is oci based on mileage alone.
Even the car manuals differentiate city, towing, winter, high speed, etc. conditions which are left on the subjective judgment of the user.
So, just as per the car manual of a contemporary Lincoln you get the full 10k miles only under the condition that you drive at 50-75 in a non hilly area and mild climate and one other condition: to have the nerve to see 0% oil life left. The same manual advises to schedule oil change at 20%. And this is a car that has general recommendation for 10k mi oci. But if you follow the manual you are never going to use an oil for more than 8k mi.

That's just "cruel" factory recommendations.

When I got my Land Cruiser I never went past 8k mi and the thing holds 12L of oil and has recommendation for 12.5 K mi.

Techs at Toyota said they've never seen oil analysis that supports more than 8k mi.

Back then I used Mobil-1 from the actually synthetic flavor.

Then all went south, Castrol RS 0W40 went to heavier grade non PAO 210°C flash point, Mobil-1 became non synthetic, first made in Romania, then in Turkey, Motul stopped smelling like Violettes, etc. and I and all other so called motorists got in struggle with oils that don't hold pressure past 3-3.5k mi, get dark and increase engine noise, engines loose power, etc.
Evidence to support my words?
What about evidence to support your LL nonsense?
I've maintained up to 8 of my own cars at the same time. Is that good enough?

A bunch of "Seule autorité proclamée" talk seriously about LL oils based solely on mileage. - are you ridiculous or yes? Read the **** manual of the poor machines you are abusing!

Maybe you are more educated than the engineers who wrote the manual of the Lincoln Continental?

For the ones with the sarcastic demands for substantiating: you prove that beaten up oil at 300Eh+ protects from wear the same as new oil. Because at your intervals 300Eh is mid life.

No PAO, no OFM, No advanced additives = no oil for your 50-100-150k$ property that you rely on every day. Very simple.
 
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Ahh ya. Amazon in general. Yes I can see that because of so many sellers are from China. In any case I'm talking about oil specifically. The gentleman claimed that LL oils would oxidize in less than 5k miles because they were not true synthetics. These oils are also used in the US market and UOA's do not support that claim regarding oxidation at even 7k or 10k miles. This lack of support in the US lead me to wonder if counterfeits are the issue in Bulgeria.
It is spelled BULGARIA, not Bulgeria...
Anyhow, I'm not only talking about Amazon, eBay has its fair share of fakes, even World PAC, that most mechanics shops use, have a lot of fakes, especially their Liqui Moly supply.
Shops, like big chain ones (Walmart etc) has no fakes, yes.
Back to oxidation - this is relative to your operating conditions and your engine, and could vary vastly.
Personally, I would NOT trust any UOA 100%
When it comes to the health of an expensive component, such as the engine, It should not matter, for anyone, what an oil or car manufacturer says about how long you can run the oil all that LL nonsense...
An oil change is DIRT CHEAP compared to the cost of an engine, especially in the US, why bother with extended change intervals just to find where the oil stars to degrade? - does not make sense to me...
 
Another example of manufacturers manipulating consumers:
Samsung and LG would put, on their appliances, a sticker that says 10 years warranty...
Would you buy the worst appliance based on that???
....a lot of people do, unfortunately.
Just like they trust Lifetime transmission oil changes and extended engine oil changes because - hey, it's just less maintenance :)
....buy a TESLA - no oil changes :) , but then pay it for the next 72 months and have no parts availability...
This is what I'm on about - most people don't think realistically about actual sustainability..
 
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