Another Napa Proselect failure... 21334 w/11K mi

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Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Oil filters are expected to remain functional for at least as long as the specified interval for the vehicle they are designed to fit. When one cannot to do that, the filter has indeed failed.


Good point about the OLM. I guess that is a potential standard for the fail-point.


However, if it does not meet that OLM or manufacturer's OCI but is spec-ed for that vehicle, then it would be a failure.

Thus, 4.5K fail point (or less) on a 7.5K manufacturer recommended OCI would be a fail but a 4.5 on a 3750 recommend OCI would not.


Which is why we need to be careful how we qualify this.

This filter, WIX 51334 fits:

Originally Posted By: WIX
Acura (88-05), Chevrolet (85-88), Dodge (91-96), Ford (88-96), Honda (72-09), Hyundai (89-14), Isuzu (85-04), Kia (01-14), Mercury (87-91), Mitsubishi (89-98), Subaru (87-14) Atlas-Copco, Case, John Deere, Kobelco, Komatsu, Kubota, Onan, Toro & Yanmar Diesel, Other


We know many of those vehicles have OLM's and probably run intervals exceeding 10,000 miles. I just did a quick search and one guy with an Accord, which I believe spec's the same filter, was at 9,200 miles and his OLM was still at 30%.
 
Originally Posted By: Voltmaster
11k with castrol gtx?
why? only full synthetics should be pushed that far, and I wouldnt do it personaly.


I'm pretty sure Volk knows this. If you read the thread, you'd see that the car has had pretty haphazard maintenance due to a divorce. Since Volk is taking over, the OCIs are more reasonable.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


Which is why we need to be careful how we qualify this.

This filter, WIX 51334 fits:


We know many of those vehicles have OLM's and probably run intervals exceeding 10,000 miles. I just did a quick search and one guy with an Accord, which I believe spec's the same filter, was at 9,200 miles and his OLM was still at 30%.


Yeah, that is a good point.

I am still not sold on OLM. Useful for those who do not always look at their oils but when my Wife's Fit was reading 60% on syn-blend castrol in the winter, in the mountains with most trips under 6 miles, I still changed it out at nearly 7K.
 
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Originally Posted By: JavierG
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.

The filter failed but it was not a failure. 11K is a long time and beyond what that oil and filter should have been used for... it is kinda like having a 2 tonne jack-stand being used for 4-5 tonne vehicle. Of course it is likely to fail but did the part fail or did the user (not you, the GF's mother) fail?

On the other hand, should a P1 filter fail at 4.5K... no.


Not really. Many OEM change intervals are easily that long now based on OLM intervals. If this filter was on an OLM-equipped vehicle the change interval utilized here may have very well been within the range dictated by that device.

Oil filters are expected to remain functional for at least as long as the specified interval for the vehicle they are designed to fit. When one cannot to do that, the filter has indeed failed.

I just think there are too many variables: stop and go driving, short/long distance, etc. Plus, if you're going to go over the recommended oci by over 50%, why not step up and use a Napa Silver or Gold or Platinum? I'm pretty sure Napa doesn't recommend using their entry level filter for 11K mile intervals.


In a general context (not speaking to the vehicle referenced by the OP), Ford for example recommends you use their Motorcraft filters for whatever the OLM dictates.

And the OLM (on vehicles so equipped) is of course supposed to compensate for all those things you mentioned
wink.gif
In the case of an OLM, the "recommended OCI" is whatever the OLM says it is. So the only time you'd be going over that OCI is if you were running the oil/filter beyond the interval dictated by the OLM. Since I don't think that's what you were speaking to and were rather referencing the old line of thought regarding 3K and 5K OCI's and exceeding that we need to remember that OLM's have been in use for close to two decades now, they aren't new technology
smile.gif


I believe the filter manufacturers use some creative verbiage regarding the duration that their product is supposed to be used for. I believe it is something like "5,000 miles or the manufacturer dictated change interval", something to that effect anyway. Basically giving them an out if you run it past 5,000 miles and your OEM interval isn't any longer than that, they are off the hook. But of course recommending a filter for a particular application, it is of course implied that the product most perform as to the requirements of that application, which includes functioning properly for the duration of the OEM OCI, even if it is an extended OCI dictated by an OLM. So while they might want you to buy the Platinum version of their product, if the standard version is recommended for your Accord and the Accord runs 14,000 mile OCI's, that product needs to last that long to be suitable for that application.
 
Originally Posted By: Voltmaster
11k with castrol gtx?
why? only full synthetics should be pushed that far, and I wouldnt do it personaly.

honnestly, after 10k you gonna be pushing any filter.
By no means I would call this a faliure, since one component ( castrol ) was pushed beyond its limit.


GTX meets the requirements for many applications that run OCI's at least this long. The only way for us to know if the oil was indeed used up would be if the OP performed a UOA on it and it indicated that the TBN had been depleted for example. Without that data we have no idea how much life the oil had left in it.

Now of course that's ignoring the fact that Kia recommends something like a 5,000 mile OCI for this vehicle and it doesn't have an OLM, LOL! But just speaking in general as to how long a conventional oil can last, you'd probably be surprised as to the duration many manufacturers expect you to run it for.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06

If this was a Fram, everyone would be condemning this filter.


Everyone except me.....I love Fram
cheers3.gif
 
I think we have to reserve judgement on this filter until it's dissected, but my guess is that the ADBV is going to be shriveled up like a potato chip and hard as a rock. No nitrile ADBV is going to stay flexible for 11k miles.

One takeaway for me is, how can the manufacturers claim these lower end filters "meet or exceed OEM specifications" when the OEM filter has a silicone ADBV?
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: volk06

If this was a Fram, everyone would be condemning this filter.


Everyone except me.....I love Fram
cheers3.gif



Me too.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: volk06

If this was a Fram, everyone would be condemning this filter.


Everyone except me.....I love Fram
cheers3.gif



Me too.


Haven't used them in years, but I'm gonna have to give them another try after my stash of Motorcrafts and Napas runs out.
 
Like some others here, I can't see the refererenced nitrile adbv "failure". I would agree with others though, at 11k miles it wouldn't be at all unusual for a nitrile adbv to have lost it's flexibility/pliability. It's also why premium/extended oci filters generally use silicone adbv's as standard.

Beyond that it's possible if not probable there is/was a defective adbv at the point of manufacture. But in either case, unless one experiences a significant noticeable start up rattle, it may not be a issue.
 
You guys don't seem to realize that that is NOT the ADV. It's the bypass valve gasket. The ADV covers the oil holes. And is held in contact with the baseplate by the bypass valve.
 
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I have seen the gaskets look like that even on new filters, where you can see wavy lines from inside the center hole. I doubt it's anything to be concerned about. Kind of like how air filters will sometimes have excess material on the rubber gasket. As long as it's making a good seal, I wouldn't think it's a failure.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Thanks again. With my wife's Focus OCI around 10K I am happy that I used a NAPA Gold filter.
Normally I use motorcraft's but the AZ I bought the oil from was sold out of the appropriate motorcraft. I did not want to go to Walmart to buy one. Oreilly's charges over 6 bucks for a motorcraft oil filter here after taxes. So I just went to the local NAPA.

Why not? Just curious.
 
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
I have seen the gaskets look like that even on new filters, where you can see wavy lines from inside the center hole. I doubt it's anything to be concerned about. Kind of like how air filters will sometimes have excess material on the rubber gasket. As long as it's making a good seal, I wouldn't think it's a failure.


The photos are dark and it's hard to distinguish whats what. But I think the "wavy rubber" is part of the base end by-pass valve, not the ADBV.
 
I will admit I'm befuddled by the "bypass gasket valve" id. I have a dissected Napa Gold here I haven't posted yet and the black/nitrile portion of the Wix traditional thread end bypass is completely covered by the silicone adbv. No way I can it see it from outside without first removing the adbv with the tapping plate. And I can't see it by looking down the centertube either.

If that wrinkled black postion the OP is describing is the bypass gasket then imo, based on the Gold I have here, either part of the adbv is missing, was never there or has curled under/over exposing the bypass gasket. Or part of the bypass has protruded out

Again though, not enough definition and clarity in the pics for me to tell what if anything is wrong.
 
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