Another beheading

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Unfortunately, as you noted, the ability to call a spade a spade has had its head cut off (pun intended) by all the politically correct nonsense that we now adhere to in North America.

We are so afraid to offend somebody who doesn't give a rat's behind if they offend us that we are completely willing to let them get away with just what you've detailed. Hate speech, support of terrorism, extremists views on a myriad of topics....etc. The list is extensive and growing. We don't stand up to them, on our own soil, because we have been beat down by the preachings of tolerance and acceptance seemingly oblivious to the fact that in order for that to work, it has to be a two way street

This will ultimately be our undoing. Or it will be the next generation of genocide. Either way, the future isn't pretty

For you, and all others who believe that hate, terrorism, and extremist views weren't tolerated before the advent of political correctness, please Google: "Ku Klux Klan".

Kthx

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Unfortunately, as you noted, the ability to call a spade a spade has had its head cut off (pun intended) by all the politically correct nonsense that we now adhere to in North America.

We are so afraid to offend somebody who doesn't give a rat's behind if they offend us that we are completely willing to let them get away with just what you've detailed. Hate speech, support of terrorism, extremists views on a myriad of topics....etc. The list is extensive and growing. We don't stand up to them, on our own soil, because we have been beat down by the preachings of tolerance and acceptance seemingly oblivious to the fact that in order for that to work, it has to be a two way street

This will ultimately be our undoing. Or it will be the next generation of genocide. Either way, the future isn't pretty

For you, and all others who believe that hate, terrorism, and extremist views weren't tolerated before the advent of political correctness, please Google: "Ku Klux Klan".

Kthx

That's not my point. My point is that in order for PC to work, everybody has to agree with and abide by it. When you are trying to incorporate those who don't recognize it into society, this is the result.

I'm not advocating a return of intolerance. What I'm saying is that the current PC atmosphere does nothing but frustrate those abiding by it and empowers those that don't because they are able to present their views, like in this gentleman's example, unchallenged because the person who would say something doesn't, fearing it is not PC.

This breeds hate and fear below the surface, not a recipe for a "good" outcome for anybody if that eventually festers to the point that it is acted upon.

 

[IndyIan]

I think the problem with not being PC is that the vast majority of Muslims have as much in common with the extremists as you or I do. Are all catholics and Protestants all terrorists based on what happened in northern Ireland?

 

[DoubleWasp]

The modern movement of political correctness is about civility and awareness, and a movement against ignorance.

How do we tell someone it's OK to talk trash about Muslims, and then tell the same person he shouldn't start complaining that a Hispanic family moved into his neighborhood?

Extremists of all religions are terrible, and in every religion you have the idiots who believe that it is their job to kill and subjugate.

Christianity, for example, only became a peaceful religion when secular laws and enforcement took over.

Criticizing someone for praising murder, without bringing religion into it, is actually quite easy.

The only thing PC has limited are people who don't know how make a cogent statement without slapping the previously accepted bias on top.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
The Middle East having corrupt governments, and corrupt enemies of their governments, dates back at least to when the US developed such a close relationship with the corrupt Shah of Iran.

Much, MUCH farther than that. But you knew that.

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
And some roots of hatred in the Middle East towards the US goes back to the Six Day War, when Egypt's President Nasser did all he could to turn the Arab community against Israel, and of course, against the US for supporting Israel.

One of the most interesting accounts I've heard is by Karen Armstrong. She traces it back to when the industrialized West really started colliding with the still-agrarian Muslim world and other agrarian societies. Those that resisted were trampled; those that tried to keep up had to modernize much faster than their populations and ideologies could accommodate. Either way, there was widespread feeling -- some of it justified, some of it not -- of being subjugated by an aggressive and colonial West, with which corrupt rulers were colluding. It was a highly efficient recipe for resentment. Let that mix simmer for a couple of centuries, and you'd have yourself quite a reservoir of anti-Western sentiment.

I'm in no position to evaluate Armstrong's scholarship, but the argument makes sense...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
The modern movement of political correctness is about civility and awareness, and a movement against ignorance.

How do we tell someone it's OK to talk trash about Muslims, and then tell the same person he shouldn't start complaining that a Hispanic family moved into his neighborhood?

Extremists of all religions are terrible, and in every religion you have the idiots who believe that it is their job to kill and subjugate.

Christianity, for example, only became a peaceful religion when secular laws and enforcement took over.

Criticizing someone for praising murder, without bringing religion into it, is actually quite easy.

The only thing PC has limited are people who don't know how make a cogent statement without slapping the previously accepted bias on top.

As much as I agree with OVERK1LL's sentiments, I have to agree with this, too.

It's certainly true that political correctness can have a chilling effect on public discourse. At the same time, I almost never see anyone complain about political correctness unless they're either annoyed by being called on their own bigotry or unaware that it exists...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
The modern movement of political correctness is about civility and awareness, and a movement against ignorance.

How do we tell someone it's OK to talk trash about Muslims, and then tell the same person he shouldn't start complaining that a Hispanic family moved into his neighborhood?

Extremists of all religions are terrible, and in every religion you have the idiots who believe that it is their job to kill and subjugate.

Christianity, for example, only became a peaceful religion when secular laws and enforcement took over.

Criticizing someone for praising murder, without bringing religion into it, is actually quite easy.

The only thing PC has limited are people who don't know how make a cogent statement without slapping the previously accepted bias on top.


And in theory, that's fine. Unfortunately in reality what usually happens is that people say nothing. They don't attack what is being said, ignoring the religious side of it, just like in the example cited.

Many things are wonderful in theory. It is when you try and get it to work with people who are inherently imperfect that the end result is not what you anticipated.

Nobody is saying "talk trash" about Muslims (at least that I can see). The point made by the other individual, which was the one I responded to, was that nobody seems to want to say ANYTHING to Muslims, even when they are supporting extremist viewpoints because they feel they aren't supposed to due to the PC climate. A PC climate I think we can both agree, in many instances, doesn't align with the one you've described as the "modern movement".

There's nothing inherently religious or offensive about telling those people to not talk that way and that it is offensive (which should have been done). The problem is that we've been coached into thinking that doing so is wrong. And that's a shame.

 

[tenderloin]

Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
So who is benefitting?


Why we are of course! How else would we get all the crude for our lovely motor oil if we didn't have an excuse to invade the Middle East?



US Oil Suppliers 2012

US 38.8%
Latin America 19.6%
Canada 15.1% (increased in 2013)
Persian Gulf 12.9%
Africa 10.3%
Others 3.1%

China gets more oil from Middle East than does USA

Australia gets 80% from Singapore which relies heavily on Middle East oil. I just read that a huge shale oil discovery was made last year in Australia. Hope it works out.

 

[19jacobob93]

Originally Posted By: spackard
I get tired of hearing the "we're in it for the oil" drumbeat 19jacobob93, but you keep beating that if you like.

"The U.S. exported more gasoline, diesel and other fuels than it imported in 2011 for the first time since 1949, the Energy Department said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-29/u-s-was-net-oil-product-exporter-in-2011.html

In the meantime, ask yourself if you had a limited product to sell, how are you making the most for your citizenry with what you are selling so they'll have something else to sell when the oil runs out. Some leaders (Lee Kwan Yew) did their best and did right by his people. Check out some of his interviews on Charlie Rose. You'll be floored by how smart the guy is.

The current leaders, all they need to do is model themselves after a successful one, they don't even need to invent success, just copy it.


I'm guessing you also believe the official 9/11 story...

 

[stockrex]

And we know that ISIS killed him how?
the identity of the masked guy matches a known ISIS member?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
And we know that ISIS killed him how?
the identity of the masked guy matches a known ISIS member?


From the article:

Quote:
Before Gourdel’s death, the militant says he and his comrades will be “closer to [censored] by killing this filthy Frenchman in defense of [censored]’s religion," and then addresses ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, saying, “we are with you… here are your soldiers fighting those you fight and making peace with those you make peace with.”

 

[Apollo14]

Some great discussion in this thread.

We should not dwell on there being a problem of political correctness. Doing so makes us not discuss the issue at hand.

Below is a video where Donald Trump says he believes there is a Muslim problem. And he outlines his viewpoint in a very even way saying that "most Muslims are wonderful people".

Now if you are truly a wonderful Muslim, then having the terrorists in Iraq & Syria claim that their state is "Islamic", might annoy you deeply and if so, partly because you now worry what other non Muslims think about you.

And in some cases they might have someone like Donald Trump who qualifies what he says, but in other cases you will end up with people, some in this thread and others on this forum, who lump all Muslims in one group. In which case their fears that the media's use of the word "Islamic" with "terrorists" will cause distrust of Muslims as a whole have in fact been realized.

Lastly, I do think that it is worth discussing (in society not on this forum), as Bill Maher believes, if there is something inherently about Islam that is problematic for western culture. Nothing should be off limits. But we need to have that debate in a civil manner and it might need some context by bringing in the behavior of other religions especially from a historical perspective.

However, I do believe that the muslim community needs to take more ownership of the problem. Extremists in the west get their media time, moderate leaders need to do some PR too.

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: BHopkins
The Middle East having corrupt governments, and corrupt enemies of their governments, dates back at least to when the US developed such a close relationship with the corrupt Shah of Iran.

Much, MUCH farther than that. But you knew that.

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
And some roots of hatred in the Middle East towards the US goes back to the Six Day War, when Egypt's President Nasser did all he could to turn the Arab community against Israel, and of course, against the US for supporting Israel.

One of the most interesting accounts I've heard is by Karen Armstrong. She traces it back to when the industrialized West really started colliding with the still-agrarian Muslim world and other agrarian societies. Those that resisted were trampled; those that tried to keep up had to modernize much faster than their populations and ideologies could accommodate. Either way, there was widespread feeling -- some of it justified, some of it not -- of being subjugated by an aggressive and colonial West, with which corrupt rulers were colluding. It was a highly efficient recipe for resentment. Let that mix simmer for a couple of centuries, and you'd have yourself quite a reservoir of anti-Western sentiment.

I'm in no position to evaluate Armstrong's scholarship, but the argument makes sense...


I'd be interested in reading this. Do you recall the name of the book? I'm assuming it is a book.

 

[hr1940]

Politics = lock time