Another amazing K&N performance (bad, of course)

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6,773
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
This is from my Can Am Outlander 800 HO EFI ATV. The PO did a lot of good stuff to this machine to make it super tough, super reliable, and super fast. This wasn't one of the parts I appreciate. As you can see, the inside of the intake elbow is basically as dirty as the outside. Before the mitigating statements begin: [*]The filter was specifically engineered for this machine. It is listed as fitting nothing else. [*]The filter was oiled well enough that my fingers became oily just from gently handling it. [*]The filter was not caked, and had no holes or damage to it. [*]The filter was tightly mounted to the elbow, and the elbow was tightly mounted to the throttle body tube Fortunately, I ordered a Moose Racing oiled foam filter the moment I saw the K&N. Just installed it after washing out and drying the snorkel tubing and the upper and lower airbox halves. Ordered a Donaldson TopSpin cyclonic separator to go on top of the snorkel as well, to get out as much of the sugar sand from the air before it even gets into the intake tube. When riding behind another vehicle, it is invisible at 30 feet, thanks to the rooster tail of dust on the hardpack roads. This will come in handy. Ejects 80-85% of everything that goes into it. Soon as it comes in, it's going on top of the snorkel. Long story made short, K&N is NOT what you want when off-roading. Never seen anything behind a UNI, TwinAir, or Moose oiled-foam filter. This is a crime on small engines. I've seen engines requiring a valve job after 150 hours because of dirt entering the intake. This engine seems to have survived, but I'll not be letting this happen again.

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Messages
19,686
Location
Sunny Florida
Ha, there was a reason all my off road crowd quit using them years ago. Not a fan, although some of their competitors have really raised the bar these days...
 
Messages
1,631
Location
Ocala, Florida
I've always liked K&N but then again I've never lived in the super sandy regions of the US like I do now in central Florida. I just pulled the K&N off my sons racing go-kart after 2 race nights and found very find sand/dirt in the carb and intake tract. This was a brand new, $750 race engine so I was very upset! The filter was brand new, factory oiled from K&N and installed 100% correctly. I ran them for years up north on my karts, bikes and quads and never once seen this. K&N filters simply do not have the micron rating to work in the sandy areas of the country like FL and TX. I'll be putting oiled foam pre-filters on everything from now on.
 
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4,167
Location
Texas
Around here , we have a saying . You can put a cork in an empty bottle . Come back a year latter & there will be dust inside the bottle . :-(
 
Messages
705
Location
MB - Manitoba
K&N suck. I've told the story about my Dads 1998 Mustang more than once here. Ford was kind to only charge him for a new paper filter and warranty covered the new MAF sensor.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Messages
45,328
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
This is from my Can Am Outlander 800 HO EFI ATV. The PO did a lot of good stuff to this machine to make it super tough, super reliable, and super fast. This wasn't one of the parts I appreciate. As you can see, the inside of the intake elbow is basically as dirty as the outside. Before the mitigating statements begin: [*]The filter was specifically engineered for this machine. It is listed as fitting nothing else. [*]The filter was oiled well enough that my fingers became oily just from gently handling it. [*]The filter was not caked, and had no holes or damage to it. [*]The filter was tightly mounted to the elbow, and the elbow was tightly mounted to the throttle body tube Fortunately, I ordered a Moose Racing oiled foam filter the moment I saw the K&N. Just installed it after washing out and drying the snorkel tubing and the upper and lower airbox halves. Ordered a Donaldson TopSpin cyclonic separator to go on top of the snorkel as well, to get out as much of the sugar sand from the air before it even gets into the intake tube. When riding behind another vehicle, it is invisible at 30 feet, thanks to the rooster tail of dust on the hardpack roads. This will come in handy. Ejects 80-85% of everything that goes into it. Soon as it comes in, it's going on top of the snorkel. Long story made short, K&N is NOT what you want when off-roading. Never seen anything behind a UNI, TwinAir, or Moose oiled-foam filter. This is a crime on small engines. I've seen engines requiring a valve job after 150 hours because of dirt entering the intake. This engine seems to have survived, but I'll not be letting this happen again.
My Max 1000R only has 300Km or so on it so far, but my intention is to run the OEM Bombardier filters, which, IIRC, are foam over top of paper. Be interested to see how the Donaldson separator works for you though.
 

DoubleWasp

Thread starter
Messages
6,773
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
I can't say I'm super shocked by this development, but it's bad enough that I think the inside of the elbow might actually be dirtier than the inside.That's pretty low. I have had great experiences with Moose filters in my dirtbikes, so that's what I'm going to run. The Donaldson separator is just the icing on the cake to keep stuff from ever getting to the filter in the first place. The OEM filter for mine appears to be some type of pleated media, wrapped in foam as well. Don't know if its really any good or not, so I just went with what I know.
 
Messages
4,822
Location
South Carolina
Ahhh .. the power of "marketing" ... drives me nuts when people who really care about their vehicle put K&N products in. An "old fashion" filter that uses oil to catch dirt is not even close to being very efficient. Anyone remember the days of lawn mower engines that used a sponge as a filter? You would clean the sponge and then oil it. Same deal with K&N ... porous media oiled down to narrow the pores vs a precision manufactured "filter paper" to let through a certain size particle. Do you think a new 95,000 Corvette or BMW or Porsche or my new lawn mower :o) comes with a oiled filter or precision "paper" filter?
 
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Messages
10,466
Location
Jupiter, Florida
I understand the K+N limitations very well. However, they are excellent filters for certain aircraft engines. Plenty of flow, light and compact. The alternative on many aircraft is simply a screen. So the mighty K+N is a great choice. They also work incredibly well as sand filters for turbine powered helicopters. Again, the alternatives, such as centrifugal sand traps, tend to clog and significantly reduce intake air flow. [Linked Image]
 
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DoubleWasp

Thread starter
Messages
6,773
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Glad I could help your friend. smile Yes, I have stated before that K&N is not a bad product, it is a misapplied product. For aviation and marine uses where there would be only a screen, trap, or slats, K&N is a much better option. I use K&N products for marine applications, and they are the best option. As a replacement for a factory media filter? Heck no.
 
Messages
2,694
Location
San Rafael, CA
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL but why do so many people pay so much for bad? All I need to do is see the K&N Logo and that product is an expletive no buy!
Because k&n :P
 
Messages
16,405
Location
In the shop
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL but why do so many people pay so much for bad? All I need to do is see the K&N Logo and that product is an expletive no buy!
Because, young and stupid jerks like one that works at my AAP say " all i use is K&N filters on everything"
 
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