An Indulgent Recession

[Mr Nice]

I really don't feel sorry for those people in a financial bind.

Why ?

Cause if people were careful and managed their money wisely... they would not be in this problem.
Who's fault is it that these idiots splurged on things they really can't afford to begin with and put it on credit card or got a loan because they just had to have it. Ya know, they have to portray an image of success, but in reality they are cash poor.

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Regarding Fowvay's situation, my father is like that, but to the extreme that it is OCD. If he gets outside his "comfort zone" it makes him very uneasy.

What's his comfort zone? If he has to make an "extra, unnecessary" 100 mile trip in the month, he gets uncomfortable about the money spent on gas, vehicle wear, etc..

He values a financial security as described by Fowvay at the cost of seldom seeing his children and grandchildren, going on trips to enjoy things, etc.. But, that's his choice and not for me to judge.

Moderation is the key. I.E., I have an excellent pay as you go cell phone plan. The phone cost $19 and my ANNUAL fees are about $80. It gets the job done.


the old codger sounds like my father in law. We will be at the coast for christmas and having xmas lunch there. He is 1 hr inland on the farm , refuses to come out to beach because staying on the farm is "what he does" at the expense of christmas and family. there won't be anything to do really that day on the farm, so...

 

[Chuck1986]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I really don't feel sorry for those people in a financial bind.

Why ?

Cause if people were careful and managed their money wisely... they would not be in this problem.
Who's fault is it that these idiots splurged on things they really can't afford to begin with and put it on credit card or got a loan because they just had to have it. Ya know, they have to portray an image of success, but in reality they are cash poor.



Very well said.
There's an old saying, I think it goes "the richest person isn't the one who has the most, but is the one who wants the least." It's unfortunate that today's society seems to live off immediate gratification living paycheck to paycheck - rather than taking lessons learned from our parents/grandparents who endured the great depression.

 

[Julian]

Originally Posted By: Chuck1986
There's an old saying, I think it goes "the richest person isn't the one who has the most, but is the one who wants the least."
It's hard for folks not to be jealous when someone can be both though, you have to admit. Ur not getn my phone!

 

[TooManyWheels]

2) stockholders who are not happy with 5-7% returns. for decades people got along just fine with dow jones average returns but as of the dot com boom we always have to have inflated returns

This cannot be overstated. I would go so far as to say that this one thing is what single handedly is at the root of our economic problems.

You can label it as greed, unwillingness to save, get it now mentality, whatever. But the ignorant belief that you can have large, sustained growth, and the resulting distortions of the economy (and accounting, and economics, and politics) to try to achieve it have led us to where we are.

 

[Gary Allan]

The 80's did more to destroy domestic manufacturing than anything else. No stockholder was going to live with the 3-5% when MS and the tech stocks were making 35-40% annually. Those companies were worth more dead than alive back then. IPO madness.

 

[oilyriser]

A big problem is when government alters the units of economic measure to make people think they are rich when they really are getting poorer, in an effort to "stimulate" something. Recessions are a sign that you're consuming too much of something, and there's a shortage. Hiding this fact by manipulating the currency just sets things back on the same wrong course, for another year or two.

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes, oily, recessions have been our friend. The protracted vapor economy was extended way too long. There's a vacuum there in it's place. I don't know how you can fill it back up without going through an 10 year recession. Not that it wouldn't do us good, but for some reason some people need to have a machine function at some near peak capacity, even if it's defective.

 

[oilyriser]

It can be allowed to evolve and improve even while shrinking in total inputs. But people have to know that, and act accordingly.

There's an apartment, I think it's in Japan, that has movable walls, so a room can be collapsed when you don't need those functions. It gives the utility of a multi-room home but with only one or two rooms.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser
It can be allowed to evolve and improve even while shrinking in total inputs. But people have to know that, and act accordingly.

There's an apartment, I think it's in Japan, that has movable walls, so a room can be collapsed when you don't need those functions. It gives the utility of a multi-room home but with only one or two rooms.


It is easily doable in the US as well, except that most people wouldn't even live with a house without a yard, 2 car garage, a family room in addition to living room that sits empty just for show, a study, a deck, a lawn, and a pool (well, may be not a pool since it is a liability nowadays).

When I was in college we have 1 roommate living in the living room with a partition / curtain that was originally a living room. The common area is the kitchen and dinning area only, and we get along just fine for $200-250 a month (10 years ago).

If we can just shrink our unrealistic expectation (i.e. my wife's desire for iPhone until I show her the $40 per month extra and the purchase price) just a little, we would have a prolonged recession, but will get by for a long way.

So, for most of us peons of the world, the point of the game is to get the other guys to spend more money (without bailing them out) and boost the economy, while we conserve and grow our wealth. I think the Chinese have been doing pretty good at that.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

It is easily doable in the US as well, except that most people wouldn't even live with a house without a yard, 2 car garage, a family room in addition to living room that sits empty just for show, a study, a deck, a lawn, and a pool (well, may be not a pool since it is a liability nowadays).


Very few of the houses around here have 2 car garages (or any garage for that matter) or pools. The way things are where you live aren't the way they are everywhere else.

 

[Audi Junkie]

The RE market did not heat up here in Wyoming Valley. It's sort of a good thing, except the county did their re-assessment at the peak of the pricing. Under appeal, you have to use data from the same period as the reassessment.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: PandaBear

It is easily doable in the US as well, except that most people wouldn't even live with a house without a yard, 2 car garage, a family room in addition to living room that sits empty just for show, a study, a deck, a lawn, and a pool (well, may be not a pool since it is a liability nowadays).


Very few of the houses around here have 2 car garages (or any garage for that matter) or pools. The way things are where you live aren't the way they are everywhere else.

I think what PandaBear meant, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that many (silly, deluded) people insist they have to have all those things in a home, when they aren't really necessary.

I'd be happy with a 2-bedroom cottage in a nice area, with a small garage -- or carport and storage -- and a decent-sized living room, and good A/C and heat. The second bedroom could become my study. A yard? Oh, maybe, but it would just be something to keep mowed, since I spend very little time in the sticky hot outdoors for 8-9 months of the year.

You'd think that, since the families are all about the 3-4 bedroom places, anybody with a 2-bedroom would be eager to move it. But noooo -- not when I was looking, anyway.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral

I think what PandaBear meant, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that many (silly, deluded) people insist they have to have all those things in a home, when they aren't really necessary.


Maybe many do. Maybe the majority of them live within 5 miles of Pandabear.

You can find a 2-bedroom townhouse for sale here with a one-car garage (or no garage at all) pretty easily.

In fact, there are a lot of townhouses around here...and there's no fitting a pool into the backyard of one of them, unless it's inflatable.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral

I think what PandaBear meant, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that many (silly, deluded) people insist they have to have all those things in a home, when they aren't really necessary.


Maybe many do. Maybe the majority of them live within 5 miles of Pandabear.

You can find a 2-bedroom townhouse for sale here with a one-car garage (or no garage at all) pretty easily.

In fact, there are a lot of townhouses around here...and there's no fitting a pool into the backyard of one of them, unless it's inflatable.


Yeah, that's what I meant, and there are many smaller homes around here, but people "insist" that they need to move to a bigger one just to keep up with the Jones.

If they are not, then they try to keep up with the "Chen's" by bidding up and getting into the best school district money can buy.

 

[javacontour]

When I think of what folks pay for homes on both coasts I'm glad we live here.

I bought one of those "decadent" homes Jan '08, 27xx square feet, and a THREE car garage (I'm so decadent!)

Basically it was in the $83/square ft price range.

And yes, we were moving to a better school district too.

Didn't get hit too bad as the builder saw what was coming and was pricing the homes to move, they paid points to get us to a 5% 30 year fixed, and the fees were reasonable, so it was all good.

We may have saved if we had waited another 6 months, as there were some more deals and government money for first time buyers (which was halved if one person already had owned a home when a couple bought a home) but what is done is done.

But we have most of the decadent stuff. However, I think we use it. There are 4-5 of us, depending on where my daughter is staying, all three bays of the garage have cars, the loft (our family room) is usually occupied with kids if they are not out playing ball down the street, etc.

Of course, our plan is to sell this 4 bedroom home when the kids are gone, get a smaller place, probably in MO instead of IL, depending on the college thing and possible in state tuition.

oilBabe's kids father lives in MO, oilBabe and I live in IL. Should any of the kids decide to go to school in IL, then we would stay here for in-state tuition.

If my daughter would decide to go to a state school in MO, by then, we could move there.

If they go private, they better have some great scholarships, etc, just like I did. (I went to Washington University in STL, FWIW and got a couple of degrees.)

Anyway, just thinking out loud here.

But the point is, it's been much more a roller coaster ride on the coasts compared to fly over country. I think our home has dropped, but more along the lines of 5-10% and not the 30%+ drops other places have seen.

Final FWIW, the home I sold 5 months prior to buying my current home was foreclosed upon. Drove by it the other day and it's been winterized according to the stickers on the door and is bank owned according to the county.

It would be a really nice starter home for someone. Three bedrooms, but only one bath, an attached one car garage and about 1/2 acre yard give or take. It's in walking distance to an auto parts store, restaurants, grocery shopping, and public transportation.

One could probably buy that home for $110-120k for a 1600 sq.ft. brick ranch today.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: javacontour


When I think of what folks pay for homes on both coasts I'm glad we live here.



You can build a mansion here for the price of a garage apartment in LA.

Of course people earn considerably less here.