Amsoil S2000 @ 7,700 miles.

[buster]

MICHAEL: We can't tell positively in this first sample, but we strongly suspect the high sodium in this sample is from anti-freeze. At this level, 0.25%, it usually doesn't have much effect on wear. We found wear quite low in your sample. The oil itself was messed up, reading high in viscosity and insolubles, and with moisture in it. Suggest watching your coolant level during the next oil use run, and for signs of coolant contamination of the oil. The TBN was 7.0, easily adequate, and a typical level for this type oil.
EQUIPMENT MAKE: Toyota
EQUIPMENT MODEL: 1.8L 4-cyl
FUEL TYPE: Gasoline (Unleaded)
OIL USE INTERVAL: 7,700 Miles
OIL TYPE & GRADE: Amsoil Series 2000 0W/30
MAKE-UP OIL ADDED: 1.5 qts

Aluminum 3
Chromium 1
Iron 7
Copper 1
Lead 6
Tin 0
Moly 3
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 86
Silicon 8
Sodium 125
calcium 2033
Magnesium 748
Phosphorus 825
Zinc 947
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 76.2
Flash Point Boil
Antifreeze .25%
Water POS
Insolubles 1.5%

Ok, I just copied everything by hand. Don't forget, this sample might have had Tide in it. But I gave them a note about it. TBN at 7 seems low for 7,700 miles.

[ February 10, 2003, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Ok, I have my analysis but can someone help me figure out how I can take a acrobat file and post it on here?

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When you're viewing the file in Acrobat Reader, use the text selection tool up in the tool bar to select the text and then just paste it here.

 

[buster]

Engine has 108k miles on it. Should I be concerned with the antifreeze? What can cause this?

**Terry, when taking the sample, like a clumsy ox, I droped the bottle and was left with half a bottle of oil. I was using Tide bottles to store the used oil. They were bone dry, but who knows what came out of it. I don't think there was enough to effect results that much but I'm no expert with this.

[ February 10, 2003, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Terry]

Another Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30 at 40w, why don't they just call it 0w-40 ? Mobils 0w-40 is really a 0w-30......go figure !

Buster, TIDE ?????


Detergents kill TBN, and thicken oil just like Glycol does. please esplain.

 

[Greg]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Engine has 108k miles on it. Should I be concerned with the antifreeze? What can cause this?

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head gasket leak, cracked block, accidental contamination.

 

[buster]

Man, I hope my head gasket isn't going. The car runs like it was brand new. Last summer, I drained some coolant out and added water back in. I then addet some coolant I had removed and put it back in as well. I was using a coolant flush. I couldn't finish the job on time bc of an emergency we ran into. I then drove 250 miles with old antifreeze with flush mixed in. Could this have damaged it?


**Terry, when taking the sample, like a clumsy ox, I droped the bottle and was left with half a bottle of oil. I was using Tide bottles to store the used oil. They were bone dry, but who knows what came out of it. I don't think there was enough to effect results that much but I'm no expert with this.

[ February 10, 2003, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Pablo]

Yikes!

With the high B and Na - well maybe you did get soap in the sample!!

I would run some more diagnostics (coolant sniff/test and cooling system test come to mind)

 

[buster]

Would I be able to take the car to the dealer and have them check the head gasket for leaks or have them run some test to see if the engine is ok?

 

[Al]

Well you have antifreeze, water and sodium. I would say you have a problem. I doubt seriously if it was the flush. Have the dealer pressure test the coolant system. The head gasket could cost you a few hundred but it is worth it on an otherwise healthy engine. I hade a Datsun B-210 with the 1200 cc engine (I think). The head gasket went at around 80K. I got rid of it at 120K and the engine used zero oil and ran like a champ. In spite of these difficulties-a great report.

[ February 10, 2003, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Al ]

 

[Terry]

The Tide bottles residuals nuked this sample for accuracy. Detergents are designed to break oil down,even small amounts.

Do watch the coolant level for any level decline.

I do not think the coolant is leaking internally nor did you hurt it, but watch it closely.


Definitely change the oil and resample at a reduced interval to ensure engine health. Pull the sample from the drain stream or pump not a remote storage container.

 

[buster]

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I really wish I had more time when flushing the coolant. I might run by Toyota tommorrow and see what they say. Is the antifreeze amount extremely high or just slightly? I plan on giving them a copy of the report.

 

[mdv]

On the plus side, the wear numbers looked good. I don't think anything else can really be read from this sample because of the possible contamination.

 

[Green Max]

If I were you I would do a new oil analysis (with fresh bottles) before paying the dealer $$.

 

[TooSlick]

I'd agree with Al ...I think you have a slight coolant leak. Under these kind of driving conditions you should have < .05% water in the sample. Coolant combines chemically with oil to form an acidic sludge and will eventually attack your main and rod bearings. The level of insolubles is very high for this many miles ...in a normal functioning engine it should be more like 0.2%-0.4%.

I'd have the coolant system pressure tested - you can also have a dye added to the system so that any slight leakage can be spotted using a blacklight.

The sample looks fine as far as wear rates, but due to the contamination it's hard to gauge oil contamination. Correct this problem and you'll see better TBN retention.

TooSlick
Dixie Synthetics

 

[Patman]

I think the Tide has messed things up, although wear numbers look good. I wonder if the oil thickened up that much on it's own though? It's way into 40wt land, at 14.66cst. It's not even close to a 30wt anymore (9.3 to 12.49)

I say wait for the next analysis report (but sample it sooner!) to see if the engine has problems or if the Tide messed it up.

 

[TooSlick]

Patman,

I have lots of experience with this formulation over the last eight years ....After 7700 miles, I'd actually expect it to be slightly thinner than the baseline value, due to some slight shearing. This oil also behaves similiar to the Mobil1, 0w-40 in that it first shears down by 5%-10% and then thickens slowly and predictibly due to oxidation. The very high solids level is a dead give away that their is abnormal contamination in this case - it's about five times too high.

It would be useful to have oxidation/nitration data for this engine, as there may well be other things going on ....

Ted

 

[Patman]

Ted, I figured the Tide was responsible for messing up the viscosity, as the only way I can see it being that thick so soon would be if somehow a quart or two of thicker oil was put into the 0w30 bottles by mistake (highly unlikely)

 

[Bror Jace]

OK, having dealt with recent coolant contamination, I can speak from experience. In my case it was a Honda 1.5L 16V SOHC motor in a '95 Civic. Ran like new even when the head gasket leak was at its worst ... with over 100,000 miles on the odo.

Lead and other bearing materials (copper, tin, etc ...) should be a lot higher than what you have, at least in the double digits. Can potassium be a "0" with an active coolant leak??

But, I tend to agree with GreenMax, I would want to do another sample and handle it religiously to ensure no laundry detergent contamination before tearing your motor half apart. On those of us with Proctor & Gamble stock appreciate you buying Tide.

My head gasket replacement cost me $800 and that included the removal & reinstallation as well as machine shop costs: pressure testing the head and light machining (decking) the head to ensure a flat surface for the new gasket.

My leaking gasket signs were sporadic coolant loss, temperature guage fluctuations (unusual for my car) and oil turning black almost immediately after a change. You may also notice an oily film in your coolant or a milky residue on the inside of your dipstick & tube and/or oil filler cap ... but I never did.

Anyway, I'd run another batch of oil and test again at 4,000 - 5,000 miles.

Be sure to tell the lab that you are fearful of antifreeze contamination as this will influence some of the checking that they do.

--- Bror Jace

 

[buster]

quote:

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My leaking gasket signs were sporadic coolant loss, temperature guage fluctuations (unusual for my car) and oil turning black almost immediately after a change. You may also notice an oily film in your coolant or a milky residue on the inside of your dipstick & tube and/or oil filler cap ... but I never did.

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I took the car in today. I don't think there is a coolant leak. My coolant level hasn't dropped a bit. I hate spending the $$, but I want to catch any potential problems ahead of time.

 

[buster]

Toyota found no coolant leak. I didn't think there was. My coolant level never moved and the oil shows no visible signs of milky color. While they were checking this they did say my water pump has started to leak slightly....now what? I'm spending $500 for a water pump.