Amsoil AZO 0w30 - 7,576 miles - 06 Scion tC
- Thread starter Artem
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I know I'm being nit-picky, but TBN retention I think is poor - after only 7500 miles, with 2 quarts of top-off, a 12.6-starting TBN oil only has a TBN of 5???
I'd expect it to be 7-9.....
Doesn't the TBN drop quickly and then stabilize and continue to drop but at a much steady rate? For all we know, it could take another 10,000 miles (with no makeup oil) before it reach a TBN of 3.0
That said, I also expected a slightly higher TBN since I've been feeding the engine a steady diet of 1/4th quart every second gas fill up (roughly 500 miles apart) with no make up during the last 1,500 miles.
I know I'm being nit-picky, but TBN retention I think is poor - after only 7500 miles, with 2 quarts of top-off, a 12.6-starting TBN oil only has a TBN of 5???
I'd expect it to be 7-9.....
Doesn't the TBN drop quickly and then stabilize and continue to drop but at a much steady rate? For all we know, it could take another 10,000 miles (with no makeup oil) before it reach a TBN of 3.0
That said, I also expected a slightly higher TBN since I've been feeding the engine a steady diet of 1/4th quart every second gas fill up (roughly 500 miles apart) with no make up during the last 1,500 miles.
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I know I'm being nit-picky, but TBN retention I think is poor - after only 7500 miles, with 2 quarts of top-off, a 12.6-starting TBN oil only has a TBN of 5???
I'd expect it to be 7-9.....
Doesn't the TBN drop quickly and then stabilize and continue to drop but at a much steady rate? For all we know, it could take another 10,000 miles (with no makeup oil) before it reach a TBN of 3.0
That said, I also expected a slightly higher TBN since I've been feeding the engine a steady diet of 1/4th quart every second gas fill up (roughly 500 miles apart) with no make up during the last 1,500 miles.
^This.
Originally Posted By: Artem
That would definitely be interesting and raise a few eyebrows as well. Haha.
I'll first do another fill of AZO and see how it does the second time around.
When I first used OE in this engine, it also burned more then the second fill.
....and this.
The fact is immediately choosing an oil off of the first UOA/first run in an engine isn't being methodical at all. Don't listen to the guys that are wanting to switch because of consumption right away.
I'll bet consumption drops the more oil changes with AZO it sees.
OTOH, have you driving the tC more this interval, more so than in the past? With your driving style, it wouldn't surprise me to see more oil consumption compared to your wife.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I know I'm being nit-picky, but TBN retention I think is poor - after only 7500 miles, with 2 quarts of top-off, a 12.6-starting TBN oil only has a TBN of 5???
I'd expect it to be 7-9.....
Doesn't the TBN drop quickly and then stabilize and continue to drop but at a much steady rate? For all we know, it could take another 10,000 miles (with no makeup oil) before it reach a TBN of 3.0
That said, I also expected a slightly higher TBN since I've been feeding the engine a steady diet of 1/4th quart every second gas fill up (roughly 500 miles apart) with no make up during the last 1,500 miles.
^This.
Originally Posted By: Artem
That would definitely be interesting and raise a few eyebrows as well. Haha.
I'll first do another fill of AZO and see how it does the second time around.
When I first used OE in this engine, it also burned more then the second fill.
....and this.
The fact is immediately choosing an oil off of the first UOA/first run in an engine isn't being methodical at all. Don't listen to the guys that are wanting to switch because of consumption right away.
I'll bet consumption drops the more oil changes with AZO it sees.
OTOH, have you driving the tC more this interval, more so than in the past? With your driving style, it wouldn't surprise me to see more oil consumption compared to your wife.
She runs it hard as well, after all, it is HER modified tC. She loves the exhaust, the stiff suspension, the short shifter, racing engine mounts making the seat vibrate
You're right though and I'm not giving up on AZO just yet. I'll continue to run it with the next fill and see where that takes me. hopefully consumption drops so we can prove all these guys wrong
I'd switch to PU or M1. Amsoil has little value these days.
And you really don't know what you're getting considering 1. They don't specify what base oils they use. 2. Their top tier line doesn't officially meet any specs. For the prices they charge, I'd want more info. Amsoil is yesterday's oil.
And you really don't know what you're getting considering 1. They don't specify what base oils they use. 2. Their top tier line doesn't officially meet any specs. For the prices they charge, I'd want more info. Amsoil is yesterday's oil.
And you know the other oils would be better mystically? Please do explain in detail, how you glean this from a single UOA.
Originally Posted By: buster
I'm just making a suggestion and giving him my .02. Do you have some type of search bot that tells you when someone posts something not favorable to amsoil on here? Weird.
I have installed a keystroke monitor on your PC.
Seriously, you take about every swipe you can at Amsoil. I rarely see you post anything negative about other oils.
I remember in the distant past you used to preach the stuff from Dave at Redline about UOA's usefulness in judging motor oils. I think if you combine that with Doug's info about single pass UOA's, we might be getting somewhere.
As for the TBN - how the heck can we know what other oils would have done in this EXACT usage? This oil could have gone to 15K, IMHO. In some pretty abusive conditions. The consumption does seem relatively high, need to watch that with the next OCI.
I'm just making a suggestion and giving him my .02. Do you have some type of search bot that tells you when someone posts something not favorable to amsoil on here? Weird.
I have installed a keystroke monitor on your PC.
I remember in the distant past you used to preach the stuff from Dave at Redline about UOA's usefulness in judging motor oils. I think if you combine that with Doug's info about single pass UOA's, we might be getting somewhere.
As for the TBN - how the heck can we know what other oils would have done in this EXACT usage? This oil could have gone to 15K, IMHO. In some pretty abusive conditions. The consumption does seem relatively high, need to watch that with the next OCI.
^It's all in how you define value. We're babying the car's life, not the oil's useful life. Some change early, some waste, yeah that is debatable, but not outside the realm of opinion. I mean, heck, you could argue that a sustained 1 quart every 3.5k would be perfect for AZO!
Throw in a bypass filtration system, and 1 quart top-off by every 4,000 miles and he might not ever have to change the oil again!!!
Throw in a bypass filtration system, and 1 quart top-off by every 4,000 miles and he might not ever have to change the oil again!!!
Yea I personally see nothing wrong with a little consumption. I'd rather add oil to replenish the sump vs not adding anything at all.
This car takes 4.1 quarts to fill up. For a 2.4L engine, I find that a little on the low side compared to my Civic Si's 2.0L which took 5.5 quarts and burned a quart every 3,000 miles.
With the tC, I'm going 7,500 miles on 6 quarts of oil with plenty of TBN left for safety and to go further. Once I reach 10,000 miles on the oil, it would've taken 7 quarts of oil to get there, all while using high quality stuff.
If I were to use OE or some other lube and change every 5k miles as per the OLM, it would take me 8 quarts to do the same distance and that's not counting top off
That's the way I look at it. Tell me that I'm wrong....
This car takes 4.1 quarts to fill up. For a 2.4L engine, I find that a little on the low side compared to my Civic Si's 2.0L which took 5.5 quarts and burned a quart every 3,000 miles.
With the tC, I'm going 7,500 miles on 6 quarts of oil with plenty of TBN left for safety and to go further. Once I reach 10,000 miles on the oil, it would've taken 7 quarts of oil to get there, all while using high quality stuff.
If I were to use OE or some other lube and change every 5k miles as per the OLM, it would take me 8 quarts to do the same distance and that's not counting top off
That's the way I look at it. Tell me that I'm wrong....
I know, right? I don't get what it is with people on this forum, they're always wanting to bring a brotha down and persuade people to use cheaper oils (wait let me rephrase that... oils that are "just as good" but can be bought for cheap @ wallyworld)
I personally prefer to use Amsoil's fluids. I got like 19 cases of various blends (OE, XL, SS) in every which viscosity. I've tried them all and have posted all the UOA results on here. I'm simply not interested in using anything else at the moment.
I have Redline oil 5w30 lined up for the tC once summer rolls around. Will attempt to see if it performs the same as it did in my Si (showing slightly more wear metals) and then followed by Amsoil Euro 5w30. Once this beast reaches 200k, i'll think about using something cheaper as the car progresses into beater status. Until then, i want the best oils protecting the poor Camry engine from falling apart as i drive the car like a rental.
I personally prefer to use Amsoil's fluids. I got like 19 cases of various blends (OE, XL, SS) in every which viscosity. I've tried them all and have posted all the UOA results on here. I'm simply not interested in using anything else at the moment.
I have Redline oil 5w30 lined up for the tC once summer rolls around. Will attempt to see if it performs the same as it did in my Si (showing slightly more wear metals) and then followed by Amsoil Euro 5w30. Once this beast reaches 200k, i'll think about using something cheaper as the car progresses into beater status. Until then, i want the best oils protecting the poor Camry engine from falling apart as i drive the car like a rental.
Originally Posted By: Artem
I know, right? I don't get what it is with people on this forum, they're always wanting to bring a brotha down and persuade people to use cheaper oils (wait let me rephrase that... oils that are "just as good" but can be bought for cheap @ wallyworld)
I want to add that i'm not looking to save money on oil changes. If i were, i wouldn't be doing UOAs with each OC, on every single car i own (and some that aren't even mine!) If i add up all the money spent of UOAs in the past year, i could have bought a truckload of Amsoil that would have lasted me YEARS! @ 3k OCIs.
BITOG and UOAs are an addiction and i'm in it from head - toe.
Anyway, for the sake of argument, i sure hope my consumption stops and the next oil run will only consume the usual half a quart per 5,000 miles... if i drive it gently.
I know, right? I don't get what it is with people on this forum, they're always wanting to bring a brotha down and persuade people to use cheaper oils (wait let me rephrase that... oils that are "just as good" but can be bought for cheap @ wallyworld)
I want to add that i'm not looking to save money on oil changes. If i were, i wouldn't be doing UOAs with each OC, on every single car i own (and some that aren't even mine!) If i add up all the money spent of UOAs in the past year, i could have bought a truckload of Amsoil that would have lasted me YEARS! @ 3k OCIs.
BITOG and UOAs are an addiction and i'm in it from head - toe.
Anyway, for the sake of argument, i sure hope my consumption stops and the next oil run will only consume the usual half a quart per 5,000 miles... if i drive it gently.
Originally Posted By: buster
I'd switch to PU or M1. Amsoil has little value these days.
And you really don't know what you're getting considering 1. They don't specify what base oils they use. 2. Their top tier line doesn't officially meet any specs. For the prices they charge, I'd want more info. Amsoil is yesterday's oil.
My Amsoil arrives directly to my door step and gets unloaded straight into my garage by my Amsoil Dealer COMPLETELY FREE of charge! @ $7.74 per quart for AZO, i don't think the price is THAT bad compared to today's oil prices.
Mobil 1 EP is up to $34.99 for the 5qt jug at my walmart. That's $7 a quart! Now i know i can get a good deal during the OC special @ Autozone but you still have to pay a premium to get the M1 filter included.
Like i said, i'm not trying to count pennies here, purchasing and using Amsoil is easy, convenient and even though they don't post ALL the info about their oils, i know that i'm using the good stuff and can sleep easy at night.
I'd switch to PU or M1. Amsoil has little value these days.
And you really don't know what you're getting considering 1. They don't specify what base oils they use. 2. Their top tier line doesn't officially meet any specs. For the prices they charge, I'd want more info. Amsoil is yesterday's oil.
My Amsoil arrives directly to my door step and gets unloaded straight into my garage by my Amsoil Dealer COMPLETELY FREE of charge! @ $7.74 per quart for AZO, i don't think the price is THAT bad compared to today's oil prices.
Mobil 1 EP is up to $34.99 for the 5qt jug at my walmart. That's $7 a quart! Now i know i can get a good deal during the OC special @ Autozone but you still have to pay a premium to get the M1 filter included.
Like i said, i'm not trying to count pennies here, purchasing and using Amsoil is easy, convenient and even though they don't post ALL the info about their oils, i know that i'm using the good stuff and can sleep easy at night.
Originally Posted By: buster
I don't say good things about Castrol or Valvoline. lol
There is nothing wrong here with this UOA necessarily. I stand by all that above, but I'd use another oil at that interval. I think Amsoil's XL/OE offer more value.
I've already stated this in a previous post above but will post some facts and numbers here...
This is Amsoil OE vs AZO + M1 oil filters bought on sale
THIS IS AT THE CURRENT AZO USAGE RATE vs PREVIOUS OE USAGE.
OE - $4.44 x 9qts = $39.96 + TWO M1 oil filters @ $7 = $53.96
AZO - $7.74 x 7qts = $54.18 + ONE M1 oil filter @ $7 = $61.18
I'm not sure why consumption went up but for the sake of argument, lets say that with the next fill, it will drop back down to normal. (half a quart every 5k miles)
AZO - $7.74 x 5.5qts = $42.57 + ONE M1 filter = $49.57
Now sure you can say that "Oh Artem, you could use the M1 oil filter for 2x 5k intervals with OE and save some coinage".
Well then;
OE - $4.44 x 9.5qts = $42.18 + ONE M1 oil filter @ $7 = $49.18
How much am i saving? $0.39
I'm also having to get under the car every 5k miles which i'm trying to avoid! that 39
isn't worth it to me.
heck even if consumption stays the same, that $12 extra that AZO is costing me in the end is still worth it in my book because after all, i'm using a better oil with a lot more TBN leftover at the end of the day vs running it down to 2.0 with OE.
I don't say good things about Castrol or Valvoline. lol
There is nothing wrong here with this UOA necessarily. I stand by all that above, but I'd use another oil at that interval. I think Amsoil's XL/OE offer more value.
I've already stated this in a previous post above but will post some facts and numbers here...
This is Amsoil OE vs AZO + M1 oil filters bought on sale
THIS IS AT THE CURRENT AZO USAGE RATE vs PREVIOUS OE USAGE.
OE - $4.44 x 9qts = $39.96 + TWO M1 oil filters @ $7 = $53.96
AZO - $7.74 x 7qts = $54.18 + ONE M1 oil filter @ $7 = $61.18
I'm not sure why consumption went up but for the sake of argument, lets say that with the next fill, it will drop back down to normal. (half a quart every 5k miles)
AZO - $7.74 x 5.5qts = $42.57 + ONE M1 filter = $49.57
Now sure you can say that "Oh Artem, you could use the M1 oil filter for 2x 5k intervals with OE and save some coinage".
Well then;
OE - $4.44 x 9.5qts = $42.18 + ONE M1 oil filter @ $7 = $49.18
How much am i saving? $0.39
I'm also having to get under the car every 5k miles which i'm trying to avoid! that 39
heck even if consumption stays the same, that $12 extra that AZO is costing me in the end is still worth it in my book because after all, i'm using a better oil with a lot more TBN leftover at the end of the day vs running it down to 2.0 with OE.
- Status
Similar threads
