AMSOIL ASL10w-30, 2003 Camry, 20,499 on oil

[Rat407]

Here is Blackstones report. This is from a friends Toyota. He puts the miles on and I have a hard time getting him in to get his oil changed like he should. The filter used was an EaO 09 both times. He needs to change his air filter. I have it here, just getting him here to change it is another story, he travels a ton with insurance business.

Code:
Universal averages show typical wear levels for the 2AZ-FE after about 5,600 miles on the oil. It goes without

saying that some additional wear is expected after a long oil run, but aluminum and iron still show more piston scuffing

than normal. This much metal can make oil abrasive, but fortunately the rings and bearings look none the worse for

wear. Silicon is still high, so check the air filter and intake for cracks and excess dirt. Fuel dilution at only a trace is

okay. The TBN was 0.9, showing little active additive remaining. Try 15,000 miles next oil to lower wear.



OIL ASL10w-30 ASL10-30

MILES IN USE 20,499 30,265

MILES 154,924 88,658

SAMPLE TAKEN 04/18/12 01/16/10



ALUMINUM 14 12

CHROMIUM 1 2

IRON 148 164

COPPER 2 3

LEAD 0 3

TIN 0 3

MOLYBDENUM 41 45

NICKEL 1 1

MANGANESE 2 5

SILVER 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0

POTASSIUM 1 3

BORON 59 37

SILICON 69 82

SODIUM 12 13

CALCIUM 3593 3046

MAGNESIUM 58 43

PHOSPHORUS 653 598

ZINC 609 835

BARIUM 0 0



INSOLUBLES 0.5 0.5

WATER 0 0

FLASHPOINT ºF 370 315

SUS VIS 210ºF 64.7 77.2

cSt @ 212ºF 11.54 14.81

Fuel% TR 2.8

Antifreeze% 0 0

Water% 0 0

TBN 0.9 0.0

 

[Lead Shoes]

Why would you think you could go 30k with out changing the oil????

He is running it far too long causing a lot of wear....

 

[Rat407]

He is super busy and this is the last thing on his mind. I told him that he can't go past 15k and before he knows it he is at 20k. I do my best to keep up with him, but with his work and his three girls all teenagers and church, his time is limited.

 

[Donald]

As usual, useless comments from Blackstone. From Polaris/OAI they would color code this RED. Change the oil. Go to JiffyLube and have them use synthetic oil and change it at 10K if he is too busy to get to your shop. JiffyLube is better than oil with a TBN of 0.0 or less than 1.0. Not promoting JiffyLube, just saying anything is better than what he is doing now.

Whats the ATF like? Driveway sealer?

Does it smoke? I would say he would be lucky to make it 200K miles. He is lucky its a Camry, otherwise it might be toast already.

How about the timing belt?

 

[tomcat27]

according to amsoil, I dont believe you should run the EA09 that many miles. they had problems with them clogging on toyotas. I dont remember all the details....

 

[oggb]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
He is running it far too long causing a lot of wear....


Based on what? Iron? Meh.

Originally Posted By: Donald
Does it smoke? I would say he would be lucky to make it 200K miles. He is lucky its a Camry, otherwise it might be toast already.


It's got 154,000 on it as of this UOA. It'll be cruising past broken down Jeeps with less mileage this summer.

 

[LeakySeals]

What was the makeup oil? The 2AZ-FE engine lasts a long time as long as its reasonably maintained. If its not well maintained, always running low on oil, not changing the coolant, make the engine hot. There is a design flaw - soft aluminum and hot spots resulting in stripped headbolts. A catastrophic and sudden separation of the block and head. Caused mainly from overheating, getting too hot, poor maintenance. Also if it gets hot, runs low on oil, etc can burn up the valve seals, noticeable by a puff of blue smoke at startup. Mine has that. Prior owner was a jiffy luber that never checked the oil, was always late - up to 10k on a OC.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Donald

How about the timing belt?


Has a chain.

 

[Rat407]

No smoke on start up. Runs great.

ATF looks a little dark but nothing really bad, just a deeper dark read, not brown on the fluid.

A half qt makeup oil on this oil change and last was a qt.

He has an Ea15k09 on there now.

The power steering fluid I changed out twice now, since it takes ATF and I have a fluid extractor.

Coolant looked good but again I told him he should get it to a shop and have it flushed.

 

[Artem]

Wow, amazing report, IMO. The high Iron does make the oil a bit abrasive but for 20,000 miles worth, i think it's decent. TBN is pretty much gone so 20k OCIs look do-able.

If the engine is clean through the oil fill hole, i say, keep going with the extended OCIs. That engine ain't going anywhere any time soon.

 

[LeakySeals]

Dont need a shop for the coolant. A drain and fill on that car is real easy to do, and because of the headbolt threat maybe the most important thing to do. DO NOT USE GREEN! Get a gallon of the Toyota Red Long life concentrate coolant and a gallon of distilled water. Mix 50/50 to make 2 gallons. There is a white plastic drain valve at bottom - middle right - of radiator. sticks right through the splash shield. Its only hand tight. Jack the car a little to fit a milk jug underneath, open it up and drain..drains 4.5 of 6.5qt capacity. The expansion tank is hanging on a bracket, not screwed down just lift, clean that out too.

The transmission is easy too. Get a washer at the dealer and 4qts T-IV. drain and fill 3.7 qts, or full to second line hot running. 10mm Hex socket. T-IV fluid doesnt go brown, turns dark grey when its going bad than blackish when its dead. Because its a highly friction modified fluid its good for 50k.

 

[Artem]

Can i get a link to the previous 30k run? I wanna see what Blackstone has to say about that

 

[MolaKule]

What majority of driving type? Mixed, highway?

Not bad with 7.4 ppm of iron wear per 1000 miles and little shearing as the oil held it's viscosity.

The iron simply accumulates in the oil with mileage.

If I were him I would go with the ATM 10W30 and see if you can cut the iron wear a bit. if he continues with the 20k intervals.

 

[OVERKILL]

I recall Doug Hillary's condemnation limit for Fe contamination to be 100ppm. You are well above that.

Hopefully he can chime in with his reason for setting the limit where it was.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
OVERK1LL - I use a condemnation number of 150ppm. In some engines this may be lower some higher and up to 200ppm. The highest I had at OCI was 221ppm

Molakule has made relevant comments about the uptake rate and this is the key. This is the factor to consider with wear metals - the longer you go the more Fe you accumulate - like putting money in the Bank! The only way to reduce the level is to cahnge the lubricant (or spend the money)

Blackstone's comments concerning wear are ludicrous!

There is no "companion" wear metal activity that would concern me either. A PQ Index number would have been inteesting too

The TBN is far too low and that should be the main criteria here - lower than around 2 is something I would avoid!

 

[OVERKILL]

Thank you for correcting me Doug

I figured you would have some valuable insight on this topic and you have delivered sir!

 

[ltslimjim]

I definitely agree with Doug regarding 2.0 TBN being a goal of finding when this combo crosses that threshold, nice for the extended beyond what most of us would consider 'recommended' use. Yeah, it did alright.

However, it is too far.

Cut back the interval to somewhere like 15,000 miles and get a sample, top off and see what the report looks like before lube change. You already have a good idea about what the current combo looks like pushed to it's limits.

Silicon is annoyingly high since it isn't allowed to wash out with an oil drain. Grr, hate @ silicon!!!

/endrant.

Carry on.

 

[Rat407]

Leakyseals, good to know on the coolant and transmission fluid. Now if I can get him in to have it done.

Artem, I'll see if I can find the 30k report and get it posted, I hope I still have it.

MolaKule, around here in NC he does a ton of back country road driving and 4 lane highway use. He lives about 8 miles outside of town.

 

[Rat407]

Here is what Blackstone posted for the 30k oil interval.

Universal averages show normal wear for the 3.0L V-6 after 4800 miles of oil use. Aluminum and iron are much
higher than average, at least partly due to the very long oil change. These two metals indicate piston scuffing in the
cylinders. Silicon may show excess dirt getting past the air filter, and this could also be causing the poor wear, so take
a close look at the entire air filtration system. The TBN was 0.0, no active additive left. This may also have contributed
to the high wear. Fuel read at a cautionary 2.8%. The viscosity read as a 15W/40. Try 5,000 miles next.

 

[addyguy]

This guy sounds like he doesn't give a heck about his car - why should you?

I'd steer clear of this one, and just let him run this one to death...althought, that will probably be past 250k miles.