AMSOIL 5W50 now for GT500 & BOSS 302 & Track packs
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Originally Posted By: zpinch
IMO, Amsoil rates their oils very conservatively as far as performance goes, their 5w-20 will outperform 0w-20 oils in cold cranking any day, and their 0w-20 has amazing cold flow properties, I think unsurpassed by any oil on the market.
I think that needs some evidence...
And if it's correct, then Amsoil are in breach of the requirements for listing their oils as a multigrade.
e.g. where they list their SAE30/10W30, as a "straight" 30, which also meets 10W30, they are allowed to market dual gradings as it IS a straight 30, but holds performance across grades.
If they have manufactured a multigrade, with VII, then it MUST be rated to the lowest cold temperature grade that the oil meets, not their choice not to.
So either Amsoil AREN'T making 5W20s that outperforming 0W20s...or they are breaking the labeling rules...
awaiting your evidence of either.
IMO, Amsoil rates their oils very conservatively as far as performance goes, their 5w-20 will outperform 0w-20 oils in cold cranking any day, and their 0w-20 has amazing cold flow properties, I think unsurpassed by any oil on the market.
I think that needs some evidence...
And if it's correct, then Amsoil are in breach of the requirements for listing their oils as a multigrade.
e.g. where they list their SAE30/10W30, as a "straight" 30, which also meets 10W30, they are allowed to market dual gradings as it IS a straight 30, but holds performance across grades.
If they have manufactured a multigrade, with VII, then it MUST be rated to the lowest cold temperature grade that the oil meets, not their choice not to.
So either Amsoil AREN'T making 5W20s that outperforming 0W20s...or they are breaking the labeling rules...
awaiting your evidence of either.
I would second Shannow's concerns. While several of Amsoil's offerings have some of the best extreme cold numbers in the business, a 5w-20 isn't going to be beating a 0w-20 in that regard. I'd certainly be interested in seeing the evidence, too.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: zpinch
IMO, Amsoil rates their oils very conservatively as far as performance goes, their 5w-20 will outperform 0w-20 oils in cold cranking any day, and their 0w-20 has amazing cold flow properties, I think unsurpassed by any oil on the market.
If it could outperform a 0w-20, it would be labelled a 0w-20. That's a labelling requirement. We don't need to make things up to say that a product is excellent
IMO, Amsoil rates their oils very conservatively as far as performance goes, their 5w-20 will outperform 0w-20 oils in cold cranking any day, and their 0w-20 has amazing cold flow properties, I think unsurpassed by any oil on the market.
If it could outperform a 0w-20, it would be labelled a 0w-20. That's a labelling requirement. We don't need to make things up to say that a product is excellent
What temperature are the ISO tests for the winter rating (0w, 5w, etc), tell me.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: zpinch
What temperature are the ISO tests for the winter rating (0w, 5w, etc), tell me.
The CCS for AMSOIL ALM 5w-20 is 4,008cP @ -30C. CCS and MRV roughly double with every 5 degrees in temperature so it would be ~8,000cP (or higher), which puts it well above the viscosity limit of 6,200cP @ -35C to classify as a 0W-xx.
AMSOIL doesn't list MRV, but the M1 AFE 0w-20 product has an MRV of 9,200cP, which is exceptional. We only have the PQIA listing for CCS for it, which pegs it 4,110cP.
In comparison, AMSOIL's ASM 0w-20 has a CCS visc of 4,290cP @ -35C.
What temperature are the ISO tests for the winter rating (0w, 5w, etc), tell me.
The CCS for AMSOIL ALM 5w-20 is 4,008cP @ -30C. CCS and MRV roughly double with every 5 degrees in temperature so it would be ~8,000cP (or higher), which puts it well above the viscosity limit of 6,200cP @ -35C to classify as a 0W-xx.
AMSOIL doesn't list MRV, but the M1 AFE 0w-20 product has an MRV of 9,200cP, which is exceptional. We only have the PQIA listing for CCS for it, which pegs it 4,110cP.
In comparison, AMSOIL's ASM 0w-20 has a CCS visc of 4,290cP @ -35C.
Well, eat my own words... here I thought their 5wXX oils were just as good as most 0wXX oils. I just never found any info showing this. The thing is, why are there oils that are listed as 0wXX, yet they have a CCS Visc. of say for example, 5600 cP @ -25C... shouldn't they be rated at the respective temperature for that grade?
This is why I never thought winter ratings were a labeling 'requirement'... confusing.
I would like this to be a discussion, maybe in a new thread?
EDIT: Is that chart really up to date in 2015?
This is why I never thought winter ratings were a labeling 'requirement'... confusing.
I would like this to be a discussion, maybe in a new thread?
EDIT: Is that chart really up to date in 2015?
Last edited:
Not sure about charts & other values, though OVERKILL has been breaking it down in easy to understand terms for me.
Very early this morning it was -29c (-21f) and I moved a 383 Roadrunner to inside one of the barns - it cranked & fired right up with 10w40 synthetic AMO in the sump after sitting for a few weeks.
So I took it out for a 20 minute spin on rural back roads to get stuff circulating before putting it away. Power sliding around with dim 35 watt headlamps made the drive through coffee taste that much better.
Very early this morning it was -29c (-21f) and I moved a 383 Roadrunner to inside one of the barns - it cranked & fired right up with 10w40 synthetic AMO in the sump after sitting for a few weeks.
So I took it out for a 20 minute spin on rural back roads to get stuff circulating before putting it away. Power sliding around with dim 35 watt headlamps made the drive through coffee taste that much better.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: zpinch
Well, eat my own words... here I thought their 5wXX oils were just as good as most 0wXX oils. I just never found any info showing this. The thing is, why are there oils that are listed as 0wXX, yet they have a CCS Visc. of say for example, 5600 cP @ -25C... shouldn't they be rated at the respective temperature for that grade?
This is why I never thought winter ratings were a labeling 'requirement'... confusing.
I would like this to be a discussion, maybe in a new thread?
EDIT: Is that chart really up to date in 2015?
A 0w-xx is required to have its CCS tested at -35C (and be below the limit in the chart) and the same with MRV, but at -40C.
And yes, the chart is up-to-date with the exception that it doesn't show the new 16 grades on it.
Well, eat my own words... here I thought their 5wXX oils were just as good as most 0wXX oils. I just never found any info showing this. The thing is, why are there oils that are listed as 0wXX, yet they have a CCS Visc. of say for example, 5600 cP @ -25C... shouldn't they be rated at the respective temperature for that grade?
This is why I never thought winter ratings were a labeling 'requirement'... confusing.
I would like this to be a discussion, maybe in a new thread?
EDIT: Is that chart really up to date in 2015?
A 0w-xx is required to have its CCS tested at -35C (and be below the limit in the chart) and the same with MRV, but at -40C.
And yes, the chart is up-to-date with the exception that it doesn't show the new 16 grades on it.
Originally Posted By: zpinch
EDIT: Is that chart really up to date in 2015?
The relevant parts to the discussion are fine. The differences on the latest SAE J300 have to do with HTHS of certain 40 multigrades, along with a tightening of the 20 grade. Shannow has posted the latest one here several times.
EDIT: Is that chart really up to date in 2015?
The relevant parts to the discussion are fine. The differences on the latest SAE J300 have to do with HTHS of certain 40 multigrades, along with a tightening of the 20 grade. Shannow has posted the latest one here several times.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
The new 5W50 has the following ZDDP level;
PHOSPHORUS 772
ZINC 847
So it seems to be typical Signature Series add pack with over 3600 calcium, about 150 moly and 230 boron. Very good and proven formula!
I hope it will be so shear stable too.. if not just the ASL with much more VI improvers (maybe Lubrizol's asteric ones?).
The new 5W50 has the following ZDDP level;
PHOSPHORUS 772
ZINC 847
So it seems to be typical Signature Series add pack with over 3600 calcium, about 150 moly and 230 boron. Very good and proven formula!
I hope it will be so shear stable too.. if not just the ASL with much more VI improvers (maybe Lubrizol's asteric ones?).
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: zpinch
Well, eat my own words... here I thought their 5wXX oils were just as good as most 0wXX oils. I just never found any info showing this. The thing is, why are there oils that are listed as 0wXX, yet they have a CCS Visc. of say for example, 5600 cP @ -25C... shouldn't they be rated at the respective temperature for that grade?
This is why I never thought winter ratings were a labeling 'requirement'... confusing.
I would like this to be a discussion, maybe in a new thread?
EDIT: Is that chart really up to date in 2015?
A 0w-xx is required to have its CCS tested at -35C (and be below the limit in the chart) and the same with MRV, but at -40C.
And yes, the chart is up-to-date with the exception that it doesn't show the new 16 grades on it.
Okay, big range in cold cranking viscosity between brands... Castrol Edge for example has a cP of 5700 (-30C), Amsoil 5w30 Signature, performing at 3730 cP. Pennzoil Ultra & Mobil 1 EP, 3950 cP.
IMO, they need to tighten up those standards.
Originally Posted By: zpinch
Well, eat my own words... here I thought their 5wXX oils were just as good as most 0wXX oils. I just never found any info showing this. The thing is, why are there oils that are listed as 0wXX, yet they have a CCS Visc. of say for example, 5600 cP @ -25C... shouldn't they be rated at the respective temperature for that grade?
This is why I never thought winter ratings were a labeling 'requirement'... confusing.
I would like this to be a discussion, maybe in a new thread?
EDIT: Is that chart really up to date in 2015?
A 0w-xx is required to have its CCS tested at -35C (and be below the limit in the chart) and the same with MRV, but at -40C.
And yes, the chart is up-to-date with the exception that it doesn't show the new 16 grades on it.
Okay, big range in cold cranking viscosity between brands... Castrol Edge for example has a cP of 5700 (-30C), Amsoil 5w30 Signature, performing at 3730 cP. Pennzoil Ultra & Mobil 1 EP, 3950 cP.
IMO, they need to tighten up those standards.
How do we accomplish tightening up those standards without creating additional categories or further complicating the ones we have? Remember that 5w-XX cold cranking has to encompass everything from a 5w-20 to a 5w-50, and the latter usually won't have as good cold cranking performance as the former. If we create more categories, that could cause confusion. If we altered the part before the "w" depending upon the SAE grade, then we're not able to meaningfully compare winter capabilities of different SAE grades. That is, if a 5w-40 or 5w-50 were permitted to have substantially different cold cranking numbers than something like a 5w-20, we'd lose the way to compare. Not every oil's sheet provides CCS or MRV numbers.
Absolutely, the system isn't perfect. However, most of the readers here know that a 5w-20 is probably going to be thinner at cold cranking temperatures than a 5w-40 or 5w-50. The general public doesn't understand what the oil viscosity numbers mean in the first place, much less be able to differentiate between an A3/B4 0w-30 and an ILSAC rated one, for instance.
Absolutely, the system isn't perfect. However, most of the readers here know that a 5w-20 is probably going to be thinner at cold cranking temperatures than a 5w-40 or 5w-50. The general public doesn't understand what the oil viscosity numbers mean in the first place, much less be able to differentiate between an A3/B4 0w-30 and an ILSAC rated one, for instance.
Very cool of them to make this product.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
A high VI is not needed to obtain superior cold performance. The VI's of the Mobil 1 AFE and EP lineup are not stratospheric yet their cold temperature performance is superior to many oils with higher VI's. In the case of these oils it is the percentage of PAO used to blend them that leads to their exceptional extreme cold performance.
Got it, makes sense.
wlyszkow - "dirty zddp load" ? How exactly does that affect viscosity or cold temperature performance ?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
A high VI is not needed to obtain superior cold performance. The VI's of the Mobil 1 AFE and EP lineup are not stratospheric yet their cold temperature performance is superior to many oils with higher VI's. In the case of these oils it is the percentage of PAO used to blend them that leads to their exceptional extreme cold performance.
wlyszkow - "dirty zddp load" ? How exactly does that affect viscosity or cold temperature performance ?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
A high VI is not needed to obtain superior cold performance. The VI's of the Mobil 1 AFE and EP lineup are not stratospheric yet their cold temperature performance is superior to many oils with higher VI's. In the case of these oils it is the percentage of PAO used to blend them that leads to their exceptional extreme cold performance.
Originally Posted By: wlyszkow
In fact the 5W-50 AMR with its 5000cP flows better at -30C than all the rest of AMSOIL 5W-20/30/40 oils XL, OE, EU spec (except the ASL of course). High VI helps too.
I wonder why not rated ACEA A3/B3/B4, Porsche A40 etc?
Nope, not better cold cranking. Their 5w30 Signature oil has 3954cP @ -30
In fact, it's only marginally better than their 5w30 XL oil for CCS. (5524cP)
In fact the 5W-50 AMR with its 5000cP flows better at -30C than all the rest of AMSOIL 5W-20/30/40 oils XL, OE, EU spec (except the ASL of course). High VI helps too.
I wonder why not rated ACEA A3/B3/B4, Porsche A40 etc?
Nope, not better cold cranking. Their 5w30 Signature oil has 3954cP @ -30
In fact, it's only marginally better than their 5w30 XL oil for CCS. (5524cP)
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