Amsoil 5w40, 4,856 miles. 2008 Mazdaspeed 3

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Originally Posted By: shpankey
If you notice in his quotes he asks about his high pressure cam driven fuel pump upgrade and if that could cause more fuel to wash down the cylinder walls and polute the oil. It not only has a higher pressure but moves a larger volume at that higher pressure too. Could this be contributing?


Yes. He has to address a few issues, the oil is not at fault here.
 
hi all,

i'm the guy that shpankey posted on behalf of. i greatly appreciate all of your thoughts and insights with this matter - Bitog is an extremely helpful place!

just to put it out there - my car is a 2008 Mazdaspeed3 with approx 53k miles on it. it has basic modifications - intake, intercooler, downpipe, tuning, diverter valve, upgraded fuel pump, and colder spark plugs. compression test less than 5k ago gave 180psi across all cylinders with spark plugs looking good.

regarding the seafoam - it's a common approach for these motors. the direct injection setup results with gunk in the valves, intake runners, etc. i'm pretty sure someone has 'scoped it before and taken pictures, but no idea where they are. it's the same as what's experienced in the VW 2.0T DI motor. here's an example:
P1010056.jpg



regarding idling - i have allowed the car to warm up for 10-15 minutes on a few occassions, mostly because it was below 0* and i prefer to give the engine/turbo time to warm up. i can cut this out no problem, seeing the effect it has had on my fuel. it's just a matter of staying out of boost until the engine's warmed up.

regarding fuel dilution - i've seen the fuel % in my oil drop from 1.5% to 0.5% from one analysis to another simply from one highway run. i was up near 2% when i started doing analyses, and highway burns have kept it below 1%. wear on the motor has not been affected by the dilution (per blackstone...)

regarding the sodium - the lack of potassium implies that it's not coolant. it's been less than 10 for most analyses so far, so the increase is not easily explained. yet the first suspect is coolant and i have not lost any. i checked it, saw that it was 1/2" low, filled to "Full", then checked a couple days later and it was a 1/2" high. engine was warm both times. not sure why that occurred.

a note regarding fuel/sodium - i've been going almost exclusively to a Murphy Oil station here in iowa for gas, bc it's the only one nearby that has 93 octane. i'm not sure if they've got sodium in their blend.

regarding the fuel dilution - the four main variables that have changed have been that i've replaced my fuel pump (had an upgraded one but it failed), it has been a very cold winter (idling...), i've been getting gas @ one place, and i did NOT do a highway run prior to this. also, lately i've been avoiding cruise control, meaning my speed/boost/fuel varies on the highway.

typical stock fuel pumps on this motor (cam driven) deliver 1600-1700psi fuel at WOT. mine is giving 1800+psi, which probably is scaled through the rev/throttle range.

i believe i can resolve the dilution issue by cutting out the idling, doing more highway driving w/ cruise control, and doing highway driving before my next drain.

then, for the next drain, i was going to run the 6qt i still have of amsoil and wait for the analysis to come back. if it's still bad, then it's rotella t6 and 3-4k intervals for me, at least until things look better; it may need to be what i do for the winter. i had EXCELLENT luck on my 1.8T GTI with Amsoil, and the oil is doing its best with my fuel in the MS3 and still holding up, giving decent engine wear. i did see T6 @ the local auto parts store today.

the main question mark for me is the sodium. i saw an STI UOA on here with 200-300ppm, which is WAY higher than my 20-30ppm. i did NOT seafoam on my last change before this most recent one, which also had the sodium, so seafoam is probably not the source... i did seafoam at 42k, though. i am tempted to blame the fuel but i've read that sodium is not used in gasoline.

overall, my car is running well. i do not have any operational issues, and i am not losing coolant nor oil. should i do a leakdown test? i am not sure if it is necessary.
 
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The fuel dilution given in a UOA is like a picture - it only tells you what it was at the time the oil was drained. As you point out, a long highway run just before draining may reduce the indicated fuel dilution.

However, systemic fuel dilution will also cause other effects, including wear indications, viscosity changes, flashpoints, TBN & TAN effects (I think), etc. You can still have oil that's been damaged by fuel dilution in a sample that shows a low level of dilution.

It takes a more trained eye to spot that stuff than most of us have.

jeff
 
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Na could be from road salt. The better Amsoil choice here is the DEO 5w40 or 10w40. Same with Redline, although their 5w30 might work too.

I would not over extend any oil based on how this engine destroys most oils. Oil is cheap.
 
Greenjp, I agree with your statement. If I'm going to battle FD, I'll need to do it all the time instead of just when it's time to drain the oil. No fuel in the sample may mean nothing if there's been fuel before that which has already hosed the viscosity and caused increased engine wear.

Buster, I don't think I can go after road salt bc I had elevated sodium in my July analysis.
 
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I may have missed it,late for work and read this fast, but has the car ever been on a dyno and had the air fuel checked ? 2 ,,does it have the stock air box on it or an aftermarket air filter,such as cold air intake ? Until the fuel problem is fixed everything else is a band-aid to me ,and if not checked with a wide band in the exhaust ,then you are still guessing .Just my 2 cents.
 
It is tuned for the modifications it has. I check the air/fuel regularly with a dashhawk - 14.7 at idle, 11.5 at WOT, which is what it is tuned for. I watch my AFR like a hawk
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Fuel dilution is a known problem with the 2.3L direct-injected turbo motor. Fuel is being sprayed into the cylinders at 1800psi and gets into the oil. An unfortunate side effect of direct injection.
 
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the new oil analysis results are in, and i am not seeing the change i was hoping for. i have been doing plenty of hwy driving and not idling.

for one, the fuel dilution is lower but not significantly so. i did a highway run of maybe 15 miles before draining - there's only one "circuit" near me that is easy to use, the problem with living in the middle of nowhere. i'm not sure if a longer run would have given better results. viscosity was improved, especially compared with other results that had less fuel %.

the sodium is still present, but they are not concerned because it has not really been changing. i have not seen any change in my coolant or oil levels.

the wear metals don't look like they changed much since the last drain.

lastly, they recommended a 6500mi drain interval. i checked the box for advice on extended oil use, but i am not sure if running that long is what i should be doing given my fuel.

thoughts? i filled with amsoil again b/c i had another 6qt remaining. i am not sure if i should stick with the amsoil or drain at 3-4k and put either PP or T6 in. amsoil may be able to handle longer intervals on a car that does not have direct injection, but mine seems to beat it up pretty well.

newanalysis.jpg
 
Its the nature of the beast.

Lean it out and use water/alcohol injection to combat knock and preignition. The other option is to blend in E85 as an octane booster so that you don't need to run that pig rich.

Shorten your OCI to 4k. Too much fuel dilution and oil abuse here.

Even though you're an Amsoil fan, and I recommend the brand often, I would recommend trying other oils and weights. You should be able to find Mobil-1 0w40(winter), 5w40(good spring/fall choice), and 10w40(summer choice), Rotella T-6 5w40, along with the full synthetic oils from the other brands. I would definitely consider the 5w50(Castrol Syntec) or even Mobil1 15w50 if you don't want to lean 'er out a bit. A good 50 or 60 weight oil(along with its normal shearing), should tolerate that fuel dilution more.
 
I question the application of a low SAP's PAO based, VII containing oil here. I think actually I would like to see Amsoil XL 10W-40 here. Lower cost. medium extended drain capable with good add pack.
 
i haven't really thought about adjusting my AFR's, but maybe i will. i know it is VERY rich, but even the stock AFR's are in the low 12's. i do have a means of adjusting the tuning myself, but i'd hunt for a dyno tuner before trying that route.

agree with a shorter OCI. the 6500mi recommendation is not something i am sure i'm comfortable with.

i do love amsoil, that's for sure. it took good care of my 1.8T VW motor.

pablo, you kinda lost me with the description of the 5W-40 oil (i have some reading to do!), but i'll check out the 10W-40. there is another owner of the same car who ran *a* 10W-40 amsoil, not sure which one, but it did well.

the frustrating part of it is that others are running 5-6k intervals and coming out with little or no fuel in them. i've noticed that a lot of them are from warm climates, which might help to burn off fuel b/c we have a stock oil cooler than easily keeps the oil around 150*F or so in the winter. i may have a fuel problem, but i am not sold on that idea yet. DI washes fuel down the cylinder walls.

regardless, i'm looking to do an OCI of 4k for this next round, with a different oil with the goal of holding up to the direct injection environment. Pennzoil Plat and Rotella T6 are common, and i'm not sure which amsoil would be best - AMO 10-40? XL 10-40? DEO 5-40?
 
Amsoil 5W-40 Euro is not a high additive oil, it's a low ash, low phosphorous purpose made oil. I don't think it's the best choice. DEO would do better, but it's expensive for 5K drains. The XL 10W-40 has a strong additive package, doesn't cost a both arms and a leg and would be great for 5000-7500 mile drains
 
Originally Posted By: PZR2874
I don't get why ppl don't just do 3K OCI ?

Especially on DI'd cars.


This may be pretty darn sound advice....
 
Just doesn't make sense why everyone is trying to "stretch" it to 6500, 7500, 5000.

Until they come up with a fix/better solution.... Change it at 3K... Synthetic or Dino.

And block off the EGR. I do MY part for the earth by keeping a catalytic in my car. lol
 
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