all cars have backup cameras in 2018

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: moving2

MCompact- Interesting. How about your kid? How about your grandmother? (Note: if your grandmother(s) are no longer with us, then take this question hypothetically).


My kid? Let's see how well he does in college.

Maternal grandmother? Maybe.
Paternal grandmother? You don't want to know.
Having said all that, if I still did PI litigation I'd say anyone is worth millions...

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: moving2

MCompact- Interesting. How about your kid? How about your grandmother? (Note: if your grandmother(s) are no longer with us, then take this question hypothetically).


My kid? Let's see how well he does in college.

Maternal grandmother? Maybe.
Paternal grandmother? You don't want to know.
Having said all that, if I still did PI litigation I'd say anyone is worth millions...

MCompact- I guess humor is one way to avoid hypocrisy. How about some solid yes or no answers?

 

[MNgopher]

For economics purposes, the value of a human life in the US these days is generally put between 6 and 8 million dollars.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: moving2

MCompact- I guess humor is one way to avoid hypocrisy. How about some solid yes or no answers?


Of course I considered my kid to be of immense value. That is exactly why my wife and I always had eyes on him whenever we operated our cars, trucks or power equipment(not to mention sending him to swimming lessons, as well as two high performance driver training courses, etc.). Those wonderful cameras may in fact save a handful of lives per year, but I'll be surprised if it stops the inept and boneheaded from inflicting carnage on Baby or Granny.

Or, to quote Douglas Adams...

“Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.”

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: moving2

MCompact- I guess humor is one way to avoid hypocrisy. How about some solid yes or no answers?


Of course I considered my kid to be of immense value. That is exactly why my wife and I always had eyes on him [...]


MCompact- I notice you failed to address your grandmothers with a yes or no response.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: moving2

MCompact- I guess humor is one way to avoid hypocrisy. How about some solid yes or no answers?


Of course I considered my kid to be of immense value. That is exactly why my wife and I always had eyes on him [...]


MCompact- I notice you failed to address your grandmothers with a yes or no response.


The question is fundamentally flawed because there is no guarantee what so ever that these cameras will save any lives or in particular that they would've prevented a certain accident. There is no way to determine that, so how can one arrive at any number, no matter how big or low is beyond me.

Now, a manufacturer's defect that is known to cause certain accidents and possibly death are a different story. In those cases the driver has little control over the events and the proposed fix will eliminate the risk totally. In those cases one can easily calculate how much the fix costs to implement vs how many lives can be saved, hence one can put a price tag on human life as in the infamous Pinto debacle.

One cannot do the same over the events that could have an infinite number of outcomes all dependent on nothing more than human nature.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: moving2


MCompact- I notice you failed to address your grandmothers with a yes or no response.


Paternal: No
Maternal: yes

I hope that satisfies your burning curiosity with respect to the monetary valuation of my ancestors...

 

[MCompact]

When all is said and done, I suppose it is inevitable that we will see an increasing number of regulations designed to protect careless, lazy, and stupid individuals from the consequences of their actions.
After all, the collective ignorance of the US has increased to the point that warning labels are required to warn people that battery acid is not a beverage, coffee is hot, and razor blades are sharp.
We tamper with the Law of Natural Selection at our peril...

 

[accent2012]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
When all is said and done, I suppose it is inevitable that we will see an increasing number of regulations designed to protect careless, lazy, and stupid individuals from the consequences of their actions.
After all, the collective ignorance of the US has increased to the point that warning labels are required to warn people that battery acid is not a beverage, coffee is hot, and razor blades are sharp.
We tamper with the Law of Natural Selection at our peril...


You can thank lawyers for all of these labels. They are the true stewards of our lives....

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: accent2012

You can thank lawyers for all of these labels. They are the true stewards of our lives....

As well I know; I see the "It's everyone's fault but mine!" mentality on a daily basis...

 

[accent2012]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: accent2012

You can thank lawyers for all of these labels. They are the true stewards of our lives....

As well I know; I see the "It's everyone's fault but mine!" mentality on a daily basis...


That's about as American as warm apple pie on the fourth of July.

 

[IndyIan]

I think the premise on making the rear view cameras mandatory, is that its low hanging fruit... The screen and computer are already in most cars, a camera is cheap and if it saves kids lives and bumpers, lets do it. If another $20/car saves a 100 kids a year, I'm in. I still won't let my kids run loose around potentially moving cars, but I don't have them on a leash either... Perfect parenting isn't locking them a "safe room" until they are 18, and at some point before they are 6' tall to be seen behind a modern pickup, I'll have to let them walk in a parking lot without holding their hands...

 

[Nate1979]

I think it is a minor detail in the end. I heard a radio interview where they said the automaker's response was this is a minor detail because almost all new cars by that time will have backup cameras anyways due to very strong customer demand for this technology. The cost is minimal, consumers demand the technology so in the end not having backup cameras will be like the manual transmission - going away because almost no one wants that old technology any more. People want back up cameras so expect them on all new cars anyways.

The NHTSA was required by law to implement rules that improve backup safety. They don't have much choice. Let's not forget the 15,000 nonfatal accidents as well. This also has a big cost.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: MCompact

Paternal: No
Maternal: yes
I hope that satisfies your burning curiosity with respect to the monetary valuation of my ancestors...


Burning curiosity? No.
Attempting to get you to answer a simple question you've not-so-slyly avoided not once, but twice? Yes.


Originally Posted By: MCompact
When all is said and done, I suppose it is inevitable that we will see an increasing number of regulations designed to protect careless, lazy, and stupid individuals from the consequences of their actions.
After all, the collective ignorance of the US has increased to the point that warning labels are required to warn people that battery acid is not a beverage, coffee is hot, and razor blades are sharp.
We tamper with the Law of Natural Selection at our peril...


Uh-huh. Just keep in mind those "stupid" people you refer to don't just include parents of kids who can jump in front of vehicles. They also include "stupid" people behind the wheel who might otherwise backup in a less safe manner. Those "stupid" people also include the elderly, who may not be as alert or aware of reversing vehicles. The elderly, y'know, like your grandmother whose life you've valued at $1M.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I think it is a minor detail in the end. I heard a radio interview where they said the automaker's response was this is a minor detail because almost all new cars by that time will have backup cameras anyways due to very strong customer demand for this technology. The cost is minimal, consumers demand the technology so in the end not having backup cameras will be like the manual transmission - going away because almost no one wants that old technology any more. People want back up cameras so expect them on all new cars anyways.

The NHTSA was required by law to implement rules that improve backup safety. They don't have much choice. Let's not forget the 15,000 nonfatal accidents as well. This also has a big cost.


Why not let the lack of a camera go away on its own then? If it's going to happen anyway (supposedly), why the need for a mandate?

Here is my issue...I can still get a pickup without a full blown jumbotron on the dash...just a small display for the radio. This mandate would require a jumbotron in a loss leader pickup to meet some stupid feel good mandate. I get stuck with a dumb feature that will probably break before the truck is expended, possibly requiring repair if in a state that does inspections.

And to the posts regarding the value of human life, sorry, but I am still not convinced that short circuiting natural selection is doing us any good. Our society basically rewards and encourages stupidity at this point. That isn't going to work out well for our society as a whole.

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

I'm no fan of having a screen to pay for when it goes out, as 01rangerxl says above.

I might get on board if they can figure out this feature, though-- The camera makes a Bluetooth connection with your phone. As soon as you engage reverse, the rearview image pops up, overriding whatever else people are doing with their phones as they back out of parking spaces.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Here is my issue...I can still get a pickup without a full blown jumbotron on the dash...just a small display for the radio. This mandate would require a jumbotron in a loss leader pickup to meet some stupid feel good mandate.


I don't see anything that specifies the size of the display (e.g., "jumbotron" vs. "small display") that must go with a backup camera. Please post up if you actually have factual information to backup your claims. Otherwise, don't post it and we can assume for ourselves what that means.


Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
And to the posts regarding the value of human life, sorry, but I am still not convinced that short circuiting natural selection is doing us any good. Our society basically rewards and encourages stupidity at this point. That isn't going to work out well for our society as a whole.


Funny you didn't address the elderly in all of this. I guess that's just part of natural selection to you, too, no?

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: moving2


Burning curiosity? No.
Attempting to get you to answer a simple question you've not-so-slyly avoided not once, but twice? Yes.


I am SO relieved...

Originally Posted By: moving2

Uh-huh. Just keep in mind those "stupid" people you refer to don't just include parents of kids who can jump in front of vehicles. They also include "stupid" people behind the wheel who might otherwise backup in a less safe manner. Those "stupid" people also include the elderly, who may not be as alert or aware of reversing vehicles. The elderly, y'know, like your grandmother whose life you've valued at $1M.


As I've said, the imbeciles behind the wheel will likely still succeed in flattening little Mikey and Gramps. Remember, your drive to protect the moronic inevitably results in a further devolution of the human race. Making cars "easier" for the elderly to use? Yet another questionable "feel good" pursuit; the result will undoubtedly be more instances of Aunt Bertha driving her Buick through the front window of McDonalds.
And with respect to the one grandmother who had positive equity, I have to admit that my valuation is probably suspect due to depreciation- she shuffled off this mortal coil in 1973...

In any event, to each his own; you can welcome/worship government regulations that seek to insulate the moronic from the consequences of their stupidity, while I question the Nanny State and long for a strong dose of chlorine in the human genetic pool.

I'm afraid that life now imitates art; read C. M. Kornbluth's “The Marching Morons” if you don't agree...

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
I am SO relieved....


You're relieved I pointed out that you've been avoiding my questions? Ummm.....ok...?

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Methinks that making cars "easier" for the elderly to use is likewise a questionable pursuit; the result will undoubtedly be more instances of Aunt Bertha driving her Buick through the front window of McDonalds.


I think you misinterpreted my comment about the elderly. It wasn't about them being behind the wheel, but rather behind the vehicle. Please reread and respond.

BTW, does this place the elderly in the "moronic" and "stupid" categories you've described? Not a rhetorical question.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: moving2



BTW, does this place the elderly in the "moronic" and "stupid" categories you've described? Not a rhetorical question.


Yes it does...