all cars have backup cameras in 2018

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: MCompact


Are you seriously advocating that parents have a sense of responsibility?
Shame!!! That is the Nanny State's job...


I know, shocking it is! Sometimes it makes me wonder how I ever lived to adulthood without govt. telling my parents or mandating such things?

It would be very interesting to see the case studies of what actually happens with these so called 200 or so kids a year run over. I would like to see the yearly trends on that and would suspect any rise happening when personal electronic handheld devices became mainstream. I suspect a good portion of those kids were run over by parents that had their heads up their rectum with a [hone stuck to their ear.

 

[dlundblad]

I like the idea.

They are pretty handy for hitching up to a trailer too.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
The trend is to have an informational screen on moderns cars and unfortunately sometimes controls.

I don't see the large issue in having it flip to a backup camera that costs barely anything to make if part of car design.

In thirty years like some poster stated who cares about replacing it. Can you replace a radio from your 1984 MB. Nope.... Radio is non-essential as back up camera is.


You can pull apart anything electrical in a 1980's or older vintage MB and repair it with basic tools. Blower motor, seat switch's, cruise control amp, radio, alternator, starter, etc.

They were built like aircraft, with screws instead of clips and crimps and designed for field repairs. Most of the things like the seat switches are basic electromechanical contacts and held together with screws. Instead of replacement all you need to do is take them apart and clean up the contacts, 99% of the time that corrects a switch failure.

 

[jeepman3071]

A backup camera isn't going to make ANY difference for people who don't pay attention. They will still be focusing on their phone instead of driving a vehicle.

Backup cameras suck anyway. I haven't found one that has been helpful. I can hook up a trailer better without one, and you can't even see what is behind and to the side of the vehicle with the backup camera, which is the most important when backing up in a parking lot.

This idea will only make people stupider, which is hard to fathom, considering how stupid people already are.

If you need a backup camera to drive a vehicle, you shouldn't be driving it.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Backup cameras suck anyway. I haven't found one that has been helpful. I can hook up a trailer better without one, and you can't even see what is behind and to the side of the vehicle with the backup camera, which is the most important when backing up in a parking lot.


That doesn't make any sense for 2 reasons.

1. How could actually seeing the trailer hitch on your backup camera hinder your ability to line it up?

2. You couldn't possibly do it any better without a camera because even if you magically do better without seeing the trailer hitch you could just opt to not look at the backup camera.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: supton
When it breaks, will it be required to be fixed? Some states require TPMS to be working in order to pass safety inspection.


Excellent point. And in a lot of cases the screen is tied to other vehicle function/controls, so aftermarket offerings will be very limited at least for the initial time period.

Most people can’t spend $20-30 bucks for an oil change and cry how expensive the brake jobs and tires are, I can already see people cursing these features in the near future when they have to spend money to replace the stupid screen just to pass safety inspection.


On a 10-year-old car, I would not be surprised if replacing it totalled the car...and that's IF it's even available!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
It's a shame that we're raising a generation of people who can't even back a vehicle without electronic assistance.

True, but we've raised generations that cannot drive a standard, cannot change their own oil, time a vehicle, or adjust a carb. We've also raised a generation that cannot thresh wheat or outfit a team of horses. Where do we draw the line as to what's useful and what's absurd?

This won't make things worse. When standards were the norm, there were plenty of people who couldn't drive standards. There are plenty of people who cannot back up a vehicle correctly, and that predates rear view cameras. Unsafe backing has been an insurance issue for as long as vehicles were insured.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: glock19
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Backup cameras suck anyway. I haven't found one that has been helpful. I can hook up a trailer better without one, and you can't even see what is behind and to the side of the vehicle with the backup camera, which is the most important when backing up in a parking lot.


That doesn't make any sense for 2 reasons.

1. How could actually seeing the trailer hitch on your backup camera hinder your ability to line it up?

2. You couldn't possibly do it any better without a camera because even if you magically do better without seeing the trailer hitch you could just opt to not look at the backup camera.


The angle of the camera makes it harder to line up the trailer hitch, at least on the particular vehicle I used (2009 M-B GL450). Each time the trailer looked like it was lining up with the hitch, but a look outside would reveal it was about 1-2" off to the side. With a trailer that weighs 2500lbs empty it can be a big deal. Not something you can easily pick up and move.

I'm guessing it had something to do with the lens.

I'm used to backing up a certain way. I'm sure some people benefit from them. My main point was that people who use cameras often only look through the camera to back up, which doesn't fix the problem they have with driving.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Also - what is saying that people are going to use them?

People don't use turn signals. People don't use mirrors. I still see people driving around with TPMS lights on and flat tires ...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
People don't use turn signals. People don't use mirrors. I still see people driving around with TPMS lights on and flat tires ...

People still die in parachuting accidents. Does that mean parachutes are useless?

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

I think it's a little unfair to say that drivers should "be less stupid and actually drive". I'm not saying that anyone here actually said that, but that seems to be the sentiment of some.


I don't think that's unfair. That actually is my sentiment.

If overly stylized vehicles are the problem...how about not overly stylizing them? It's not like most modern vehicles look good. A massive blob with huge pillars and oddly shaped windows is not a good looking vehicle anyway.

Those basic features mentioned before did not detract from the activity of driving. Glass, signals, etc. do not distract a driver. They do not give a driver a false sense of security that the car will make up for their lack of care or disconnect from what they are doing.

With these cameras, cell phone mommy is likely to think "oh I just need to look at the TV to back up the car! I don't really need to be aware of my surroundings." What if the TV doesn't show everything? What if something comes in at a side angle not shown on the screen?

Enabling stupidity/lack of care will only make it worse. It's fine to use the feature as an aid if you really need it, but mandating it is simply enabling stupidity and providing a false sense of importance to a kind of gimmicky feature. What's next, mandating self parking systems, lane departure systems, etc? I feel a lot of these features actually CONTRIBUTE to bad driving. Maybe we should just get rid of glass entirely and have people view the outside world through screens? If people need all of this, maybe they shouldn't be operating a car? I think operating a vehicle should be taken somewhat seriously. If someone is unwilling to do that, then maybe they just shouldn't have the privilege, rather than have everyone else pay for their unwillingness to wake up and pay attention.

FWIW, I have used backup cameras, and was not blown away. The little guiding lines put me in the spot crooked.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: RN89

Tell that to the parent's that ACCIDENTALLY backed over their own children where a backup camera could have possibly prevented that accident.


How about those parents actually raise their kids with the common sense to not be behind a vehicle backing up or knowing where their kids are actually at before backing up?


Yeah, screw those dead kids and their parents! They deserve anything they get!

If you claim to never have had a "Where'd he go?" moment with your own three year old, you either don't have kids or you're a liar.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071


I'm used to backing up a certain way. I'm sure some people benefit from them. My main point was that people who use cameras often only look through the camera to back up, which doesn't fix the problem they have with driving.


X2. It's enabling. Enabling bad behavior does not work out.

Maybe have the screen go blank every few seconds and say "turn your head [censored]."

It seems some people want to view their entire world through a screen. #INSTAGRAMLIFEFILTERLOLICANTLOOKAWAYFROMSCREENZ!!!

God help us.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete

Yeah, screw those dead kids and their parents! They deserve anything they get!

If you claim to never have had a "Where'd he go?" moment with your own three year old, you either don't have kids or you're a liar.


No one is perfect, but why should the deaths of 200 kids per year-due almost always due to parental negligence/incompetence-cost the driving public millions of dollars-not to mention potential long term maintenance hassles? I'm so glad the reverse blade clutch lock-out could be removed from my ZTR mower- another legacy of nitwit parental supervision/situational awareness.

I know, I know- cue the Nanny State anthem(known to hand-wringing bed wetters everywhere):

"It's for the children; if it saves just one life it's worth it!"

 

[Eddie]

As a new first priority, I would like a device that kills texting when the engine is running.

 

[aquariuscsm]

People need to properly learn how to control and drive a car,not vise versa via nanny gadgets.

Drop them off in the middle of an unfamiliar city in a car that has no power steering,no power brakes,manual transmission,manually roll down windows,and a paper map. And I`ll even throw in an AM radio just to be nice :^)

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete

Yeah, screw those dead kids and their parents! They deserve anything they get!

If you claim to never have had a "Where'd he go?" moment with your own three year old, you either don't have kids or you're a liar.


No one is perfect, but why should the deaths of 200 kids per year-due almost always due to parental negligence/incompetence-cost the driving public millions of dollars-not to mention potential long term maintenance hassles? I'm so glad the reverse blade clutch lock-out could be removed from my ZTR mower- another legacy of nitwit parental supervision/situational awareness.

I know, I know- cue the Nanny State anthem(known to hand-wringing bed wetters everywhere):

"It's for the children; if it saves just one life it's worth it!"


How many lives would have to be saved for you to consider it a positive ROI?

If you claim never to have lost track of a toddler long enough for them to walk around the corner of your house and into your neighbor's driveway, you don't have kids or you're a liar.

 

[FL_Rob]

Car designers need to do away with huge blind areas, not add cameras to compensate for poor design.Huge quarter panels that roll right into the roof line ,no departure lines anymore, stupid high belt lines,slab sided doors, the list goes on.

If people were better drivers they wouldn't need all the nanny systems.So are we as a society giving up aspiring to be better drivers?
Dumbing down our driving expertise and reflexes to the lowest common denominator?

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Thank you for proving my point that people will just stare at the screen without checking their surroundings. Next order of business will be to put cameras all around.


KrisZ- actually, I did not make your point at all, so you'll have to find another post to intentionally misinterpret. Let me paste this again with some words bolded and see if you get my meaning this time:

"The same way you do when you backup without a camera now, but the backup cam will make it easier. Because you will be facing forward when you're looking at the backup camera on your LCD, and you would need to look forward to monitor kickout anyway, there will be less head turning involved"

HINT: the text in red is just the opposite of "just stare at the screen without checking (your) surroundings".

Sorry.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: supton

How do you figure that? I've only seen a couple of systems, but the LCD is in the center stack. I could easily see people just staring at the screen, not watching the front end of the car at all. I won't claim everyone is stupid, but ever notice how people space out while watching TV?

I see your point about it being easier to watch the front end, less head turning; but I think we'll wind up hearing about how that arc now causes xyz in damages on the news.


supton- huh? Not sure I'm following. In order to backup out of a parking space now, without a backup cam, one has to keep on eye on the front end so the kickout doesn't scrape the adjacent vehicle. This part of backing up won't change with a backup camera, it will just be easier to do. When you talk about that arc causing damages, that arc exists with and without a backup cam, it's just easier to handle with a backup cam, so what is your point exactly?

Next up: TV watching. What do backup cameras have to do with spacing out while watching TV? People space out *because* they're *watching TV*. What I'm referring to is *driving a vehicle and looking at what's behind them*- just in an LCD instead of a mirror. I do not see the comparison to watching TV at all.

Using your logic, I could say accountants space out on the job while working on charts in Excel on their laptops because it's "like watching TV". It's an LCD display, too, isn't it? Pretty shoddy logic, no?