Okay, so after much research, I found that the intake airbox on my GMC Yukon is very efficient at bringing in outside air from the engine bay through the fender well. However I have been unimpressed with throttle response and 1-2 & 2-3 shifting. The main restriction is the intake tubing with its a accordion style tubing and multiple noise baffles. So I decided to replace this tubing only with an AIRAID M.I.T. and keep the stock air box and AC Delco filter. I feel the throttle response has improved slightly and the truck shifts a little better and holds V4 mode longer. Some of the members on the TahoeYukon forum are trying to tell me that the computer is not smart enough to adjust for the new intake air density and that I am doing more harm than good without getting it tuned for this. I dont plan on any other performance mods with this vehicle. Since I hold everyone here in high regard I wanted to get your opinions. Keep in mind that all I did was replace the tubing. Stock air box and filter is still bringin in cooler air. I dont have any CEL lights on and havent seen any drop in mpgs. Your thoughts?
AIRRAID Intake Tube
- Thread starter 05Blazer
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Doesn't GM use a mass airflow system instead of speed/density?
Unless you changed the MAF sensor, its still literally reading the MASS of air entering the engine. No "smarts" needed to correct for the tubing at all- it just doesn't matter to the system. The mass flow may be higher at a given throttle setting, but that should all go into the math the processor is performing and still come out with the right answer.
PS- glad to see someone decide to keep a stock airbox and filter. Usually better air filtration than aftermarket CAI kits, and always better water/air separation!
Unless you changed the MAF sensor, its still literally reading the MASS of air entering the engine. No "smarts" needed to correct for the tubing at all- it just doesn't matter to the system. The mass flow may be higher at a given throttle setting, but that should all go into the math the processor is performing and still come out with the right answer.
PS- glad to see someone decide to keep a stock airbox and filter. Usually better air filtration than aftermarket CAI kits, and always better water/air separation!
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Respectfully, my opinion is the throttle response and shifting performance are likely in your head only, and any increase in V4 mode is you subconsciously trying to keep it in V4 mode to test the new intake tube.
There is likely 0 change in intake system restriction with the new tube. In fact, there may be intake resonance that the noise baffles removed that are in place now, which may create "dips" in the torque curve. Those baffles and resonators aren't solely for noise reduction; they're also tuning devices for the intake air flow.
There is likely 0 change in intake system restriction with the new tube. In fact, there may be intake resonance that the noise baffles removed that are in place now, which may create "dips" in the torque curve. Those baffles and resonators aren't solely for noise reduction; they're also tuning devices for the intake air flow.
If the system is speed desnsity, it will be pretty numb to any intake changes. Mostly likely a MAF system would be numb too but ti depends on where this new section is in relation to the location of the sensor itself. With no other tuning changes, any improvements (if there are any) are likely not measurable on a dyno. The mind is easily fooled when the wallet gets lighter.
Can't be said absolutely, however, without evaluating the product and any dyno tests done.. or doing them myself. Some engines have particular problems the aftermarket can solve. But only a small percentage of the time doe such a minor change have any measurable effect. Had enough trucks and products on dynos to have a pretty low opinion of the improvements with most intake systems on otherwise stock engines.
Can't be said absolutely, however, without evaluating the product and any dyno tests done.. or doing them myself. Some engines have particular problems the aftermarket can solve. But only a small percentage of the time doe such a minor change have any measurable effect. Had enough trucks and products on dynos to have a pretty low opinion of the improvements with most intake systems on otherwise stock engines.
Well as long as I dont see any negative impacts via mpg or trans shifts, the change in intake noise and cleanup of engine bay was worth the cost alone. I would reccommend this to anyone with a stock 5.3L or 6.0L/6.2L The truck sounds so much better under moderate acceleration.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2025
Where is the MAF sensor, on the intake box or in the tubing section you just replaced?
If the geometry of the section the MAF is installed in changes, the sensor will read erroneously.
If the geometry of the section the MAF is installed in changes, the sensor will read erroneously.
There is a system similar to the one you installed called the AirDoc. The owner of the company would post on the Chevy Colorado site i used to frequent. He reported an increase of torque/hp with just the tube, a little more with a high flow filter and even a little more with opening up the hole into the fender. I also remember reading that the truflow intakes do improve the GM small blocks as well. Take that for whats its worth.
I personally don't think you'll see any performance gains unless you have the throttle plate wide open, due to that being the only time your air flow would increase over the stock set up.
with all that said, I have a similar set up on my truck. Do i think the 5-10, maybe more, increase of power is worth it? Yes! my truck is a 4cyl that i tow and haul with and every little bit help out when you pulling onto a freeway with the pedal to the metal.
I personally don't think you'll see any performance gains unless you have the throttle plate wide open, due to that being the only time your air flow would increase over the stock set up.
with all that said, I have a similar set up on my truck. Do i think the 5-10, maybe more, increase of power is worth it? Yes! my truck is a 4cyl that i tow and haul with and every little bit help out when you pulling onto a freeway with the pedal to the metal.
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Respectfully, my opinion is the throttle response and shifting performance are likely in your head only, and any increase in V4 mode is you subconsciously trying to keep it in V4 mode to test the new intake tube.
There is likely 0 change in intake system restriction with the new tube. In fact, there may be intake resonance that the noise baffles removed that are in place now, which may create "dips" in the torque curve. Those baffles and resonators aren't solely for noise reduction; they're also tuning devices for the intake air flow.
+1 those turmors are on the stock intke plumbing to cancel standing wave resonances that will affect air metering. If you changed the dia of the restrictor tubing the MAF was in, the MAF will be out of cal and the ECU cannot comp at open loop - only closed. You may go lean.
Respectfully, my opinion is the throttle response and shifting performance are likely in your head only, and any increase in V4 mode is you subconsciously trying to keep it in V4 mode to test the new intake tube.
There is likely 0 change in intake system restriction with the new tube. In fact, there may be intake resonance that the noise baffles removed that are in place now, which may create "dips" in the torque curve. Those baffles and resonators aren't solely for noise reduction; they're also tuning devices for the intake air flow.
+1 those turmors are on the stock intke plumbing to cancel standing wave resonances that will affect air metering. If you changed the dia of the restrictor tubing the MAF was in, the MAF will be out of cal and the ECU cannot comp at open loop - only closed. You may go lean.
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Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
Well as long as I dont see any negative impacts via mpg or trans shifts, the change in intake noise and cleanup of engine bay was worth the cost alone. I would reccommend this to anyone with a stock 5.3L or 6.0L/6.2L The truck sounds so much better under moderate acceleration.
I have a nice AEM setup on one of our fleet Silverados. It has delivered a consistent one mpg for years and since it uses a dry filter it requires very little attention.
I really am pretty certain there is no significant performance increase, though. A great deal more noise at full throttle!
Well as long as I dont see any negative impacts via mpg or trans shifts, the change in intake noise and cleanup of engine bay was worth the cost alone. I would reccommend this to anyone with a stock 5.3L or 6.0L/6.2L The truck sounds so much better under moderate acceleration.
I have a nice AEM setup on one of our fleet Silverados. It has delivered a consistent one mpg for years and since it uses a dry filter it requires very little attention.
I really am pretty certain there is no significant performance increase, though. A great deal more noise at full throttle!
gathermewool
Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
MAF stayed in the stock location right on the factory intake box.
Then your fuel trims may not have been affected, unless the intake tract was designed along with your head to provide pressure pulses consistent with valve opening to provide a "ram" effect.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Respectfully, my opinion is the throttle response and shifting performance are likely in your head only, and any increase in V4 mode is you subconsciously trying to keep it in V4 mode to test the new intake tube.
There is likely 0 change in intake system restriction with the new tube. In fact, there may be intake resonance that the noise baffles removed that are in place now, which may create "dips" in the torque curve. Those baffles and resonators aren't solely for noise reduction; they're also tuning devices for the intake air flow.
+1 those turmors are on the stock intke plumbing to cancel standing wave resonances that will affect air metering. If you changed the dia of the restrictor tubing the MAF was in, the MAF will be out of cal and the ECU cannot comp at open loop - only closed. You may go lean.
Possibly, though at least on my turbo Subaru, the ECM will carry over the last range of fuel trims to open-loop (i.e., if the ECM was adding 5% fuel in open-loop in the load/rpm cell just prior to open-loop, it will add 5% fuel in open-loop.) If the fuel trims are no linear and the open-loop fueling isn't tuned for the new intake tract geometry, then he could very well be even leaner than the hypothetical 5% mentioned before, which could be bad.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
Well as long as I dont see any negative impacts via mpg or trans shifts, the change in intake noise and cleanup of engine bay was worth the cost alone. I would reccommend this to anyone with a stock 5.3L or 6.0L/6.2L The truck sounds so much better under moderate acceleration.
I have a nice AEM setup on one of our fleet Silverados. It has delivered a consistent one mpg for years and since it uses a dry filter it requires very little attention.
I really am pretty certain there is no significant performance increase, though. A great deal more noise at full throttle!
I don't know how your intake is designed, but if you've gained a whole MPG,then some of that is probably due to you running lean at times, not just a decrease in pumping losses. In your case and the OP's, with N/A engines, it probably doesn't matter so long as you don't experience any audible knocking, but I'd love to see what your fuel trims are.
MAF stayed in the stock location right on the factory intake box.
Then your fuel trims may not have been affected, unless the intake tract was designed along with your head to provide pressure pulses consistent with valve opening to provide a "ram" effect.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Respectfully, my opinion is the throttle response and shifting performance are likely in your head only, and any increase in V4 mode is you subconsciously trying to keep it in V4 mode to test the new intake tube.
There is likely 0 change in intake system restriction with the new tube. In fact, there may be intake resonance that the noise baffles removed that are in place now, which may create "dips" in the torque curve. Those baffles and resonators aren't solely for noise reduction; they're also tuning devices for the intake air flow.
+1 those turmors are on the stock intke plumbing to cancel standing wave resonances that will affect air metering. If you changed the dia of the restrictor tubing the MAF was in, the MAF will be out of cal and the ECU cannot comp at open loop - only closed. You may go lean.
Possibly, though at least on my turbo Subaru, the ECM will carry over the last range of fuel trims to open-loop (i.e., if the ECM was adding 5% fuel in open-loop in the load/rpm cell just prior to open-loop, it will add 5% fuel in open-loop.) If the fuel trims are no linear and the open-loop fueling isn't tuned for the new intake tract geometry, then he could very well be even leaner than the hypothetical 5% mentioned before, which could be bad.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
Well as long as I dont see any negative impacts via mpg or trans shifts, the change in intake noise and cleanup of engine bay was worth the cost alone. I would reccommend this to anyone with a stock 5.3L or 6.0L/6.2L The truck sounds so much better under moderate acceleration.
I have a nice AEM setup on one of our fleet Silverados. It has delivered a consistent one mpg for years and since it uses a dry filter it requires very little attention.
I really am pretty certain there is no significant performance increase, though. A great deal more noise at full throttle!
I don't know how your intake is designed, but if you've gained a whole MPG,then some of that is probably due to you running lean at times, not just a decrease in pumping losses. In your case and the OP's, with N/A engines, it probably doesn't matter so long as you don't experience any audible knocking, but I'd love to see what your fuel trims are.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
Well as long as I dont see any negative impacts via mpg or trans shifts, the change in intake noise and cleanup of engine bay was worth the cost alone. I would reccommend this to anyone with a stock 5.3L or 6.0L/6.2L The truck sounds so much better under moderate acceleration.
I have a nice AEM setup on one of our fleet Silverados. It has delivered a consistent one mpg for years and since it uses a dry filter it requires very little attention.
I really am pretty certain there is no significant performance increase, though. A great deal more noise at full throttle!
One mpg!!?? Wow, what was it with the factory system?
I will say that the freeer flowing filters do sound better. The K&N that was in my G5 when I got it sounded great!
I doubt you're hurting anything with that set up. MAF should still be working just fine and I am a bit skeptical about the resonations causing any noticeable issues either.
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
Well as long as I dont see any negative impacts via mpg or trans shifts, the change in intake noise and cleanup of engine bay was worth the cost alone. I would reccommend this to anyone with a stock 5.3L or 6.0L/6.2L The truck sounds so much better under moderate acceleration.
I have a nice AEM setup on one of our fleet Silverados. It has delivered a consistent one mpg for years and since it uses a dry filter it requires very little attention.
I really am pretty certain there is no significant performance increase, though. A great deal more noise at full throttle!
I will say that the freeer flowing filters do sound better. The K&N that was in my G5 when I got it sounded great!
I doubt you're hurting anything with that set up. MAF should still be working just fine and I am a bit skeptical about the resonations causing any noticeable issues either.
Beings the MAF sensor is built into the lid of the factory airbox which is still in its original place, I doubt the computer is having any problems compensating the new airflow However I will hook it up to the tech2 in a couple days and print out the fuel trim readings for the doubters.
thanks for everyones insight!
thanks for everyones insight!
despite the fact that I have no data logs on a work truck I have logged many vehicles in the past with CAI's of various manufacturers.
If it's a MAF system it simply cannot run lean, the computer instantly trims the fuel.
The base mpg for this vehicle runs from about 15 to about 19. It is a 4800 pound full size pickup truck, not a configuration chosen for fuel economy. One measly mpg is quite significant across our typical fleet truck's lifetime of over 200k miles.
If it's a MAF system it simply cannot run lean, the computer instantly trims the fuel.
The base mpg for this vehicle runs from about 15 to about 19. It is a 4800 pound full size pickup truck, not a configuration chosen for fuel economy. One measly mpg is quite significant across our typical fleet truck's lifetime of over 200k miles.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
despite the fact that I have no data logs on a work truck I have logged many vehicles in the past with CAI's of various manufacturers.
If it's a MAF system it simply cannot run lean, the computer instantly trims the fuel.
The base mpg for this vehicle runs from about 15 to about 19. It is a 4800 pound full size pickup truck, not a configuration chosen for fuel economy. One measly mpg is quite significant across our typical fleet truck's lifetime of over 200k miles.
The only time it MAY run lean is at WOT, which is open loop. And that's where the aftermarket gets their power is by leaning the mixture a bit.
despite the fact that I have no data logs on a work truck I have logged many vehicles in the past with CAI's of various manufacturers.
If it's a MAF system it simply cannot run lean, the computer instantly trims the fuel.
The base mpg for this vehicle runs from about 15 to about 19. It is a 4800 pound full size pickup truck, not a configuration chosen for fuel economy. One measly mpg is quite significant across our typical fleet truck's lifetime of over 200k miles.
The only time it MAY run lean is at WOT, which is open loop. And that's where the aftermarket gets their power is by leaning the mixture a bit.
From Airraid
"Thank you for inquiry. The 200-996 tube you purchased was engineered on an otherwise stock vehicle with no tune. We do this to ensure that when a customer installs a part they can do so knowing that all fuel trims, etc remain in OE parameters and the customer will not encounter any runability issues. The dyno results we claim are gathered from testing several vehicles all with a stock tune. While it Is possible to gain more performance by doing an aftermarket tune on a vehicle, it is not necessary."
"Thank you for inquiry. The 200-996 tube you purchased was engineered on an otherwise stock vehicle with no tune. We do this to ensure that when a customer installs a part they can do so knowing that all fuel trims, etc remain in OE parameters and the customer will not encounter any runability issues. The dyno results we claim are gathered from testing several vehicles all with a stock tune. While it Is possible to gain more performance by doing an aftermarket tune on a vehicle, it is not necessary."
From Trusted GM employee at the assembley plan:
You don't need a tune with a cold air intake. The internet forums are wrong. The air still passes thru the MAF sensor and that tells the engine how much air is coming in. The baffles are for noise cancellation purposes.
You don't need a tune with a cold air intake. The internet forums are wrong. The air still passes thru the MAF sensor and that tells the engine how much air is coming in. The baffles are for noise cancellation purposes.
My 99 chev with a 5.3 is mass air so yours must be. That being said the computer will compensate for any extra air that may or may not be entering the engine.
Cai are nothing more than a showpiece. They do nothing for power unless your boosting the motor. In fact they cost velocity at part throttle which costs torque in the low end and mid range.
Coming from the mustang world I see guys who tell me how much more power a cai gave them and I just laugh.
You don't need a tune. It's fine. Drive on
Cai are nothing more than a showpiece. They do nothing for power unless your boosting the motor. In fact they cost velocity at part throttle which costs torque in the low end and mid range.
Coming from the mustang world I see guys who tell me how much more power a cai gave them and I just laugh.
You don't need a tune. It's fine. Drive on
Except that the above advice is wildly platform specific.
A car with a decent air intake like my 6.1 is hard to get any gains because the factory already found TEN HORSEPOWER in the intake setup!
A cheap 4 banger like my old Neon gained almost the same amount from an Iceman intake because the factory one was overly restricted for noise reasons.
A car with a decent air intake like my 6.1 is hard to get any gains because the factory already found TEN HORSEPOWER in the intake setup!
A cheap 4 banger like my old Neon gained almost the same amount from an Iceman intake because the factory one was overly restricted for noise reasons.
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