air pressure question

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quote:

Originally posted by CapriRacer:
I am surprised no one has commented that inflation pressure = load carrying capacity, so it is important that the placard inflation pressure be used as a minimum.

The placard inflation pressure is based on many things and load carrying capacity is one of them. However, there isn't agreement between vehicle manufacturers about how this pressure should be calculated. Some manufacturers include a certain amount of overcapacity (we call it reserve capacity) and some don't. It's the ones that don't that make this whole issue of inflation pressure kind of scary - which is why the placard inflation pressure ought to be considered a minimum.

Hope this helps.


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Gee, I thought I mentioned the correlation between load carrying capability and pressure. Maybe I wasn't clear.

The Ford Explorer-Firestone Wilderness debacle was exacerbated by the fact that Ford recommended ridiculously low pressures for loaded vehicles driven fast in hot weather.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Quattro Pete:

quote:

Originally posted by cryptokid:
higher tyre pressure means more fuel economy,

True.
quote:

better tyre life,

Umm... no. All you're going to achieve this way is uneven tire wear. The center of the tread will wear out faster than the sides and you'll have to replace your tires sooner.

quote:

and improved handling.

That's a questionable one at best. Yes, you get quicker steering response by having stiffer sidewalls, but on the other hand you lose grip because the more you inflate it, the smaller the contact patch surface.


As for me, I follow the owner's manual. I find that if I go up even a few PSI, the centers start to wear out too fast, and with high perf. summer tires which wear out pretty quickly anyway, you don't have to wait long to notice it.
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no, it IS true that you get longer tyre life by running them at max psi. this is because the sidewalls flex less with each revolution, creating less heat in the tyre.

and we arnt talking about old bias plys from the 60's or lawn tractor tyres here. running a standard radial car tyre at 44psi wont make it wear out in the middle.
radials dont baloon out when inflated to higher than normal pressures. all that happens is the sidewalls bend less.
you should of seen my last set of tyres when i replaced them. they had the most even treadwear i ever seen when i pulled em off.
 
I put 30lbs in most standard tires and adjust from there. If it starts wearing in the center I will go to 28 if it wears on the outside I put in 32.
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quote:

Originally posted by dropitby:
I put 30lbs in most standard tires and adjust from there. If it starts wearing in the center I will go to 28 if it wears on the outside I put in 32.
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I sort of agree with this. Last several years I have started to go with about 3-5 psi under the max at cold as stamped on the tire (always is higher then door) but I have seen noticeable improvement in overall wear, especially on front tires and FWD cars. Wear on outside edges which is very prevalent with FWD cars is helped tremendously by increasing the air pressure to near max. Remember, not all tires are 35 psi max, many performance tires seen on family cars today have a max of 44 psi and I run these at close to 40 psi. Do not just assume the max is 35. Son's suv has Pirelli with a max of 50 psi.
 
There's a lot of factors to consider here. Are the tires original equipment? And if not, how are they different? Speed rating changes? P-rated extra load or just normal? Tires will tell you the max pressure and load. Extra load P-rated tires are usually 44 PSI max whereas the standard ones are 35 (there are some oddballs, like some Nankangs will be 36 PSI).

If you have OE tires, go with the owner's manual/tire placard specifications. Otherwise, if you've got cheaper tires on, you may want to add a little more air because they tend to be flimsier. If you have a stronger tire than OE, sticking with the manufacturer's specs on that is acceptable. But again, manufacturer's don't always have the best idea. As has been mentioned, some like to soften up the ride (GM in particular comes to mind. They tend to like 30 PSI in most passenger cars)

This also raises an interesting subject; the Ford/Firestone tire recall with the Explorer. I tend to believe that Ford was more at fault than anyone. They put P-rated tires standard on a 4,000+ pound vehicle. That's perfectly acceptable, but the tire placard in the driver's side door says to inflate to only 26 PSI! Getting away with that pressure on such a heavy vehicle would require an LT-rated tire, not P-metric, IMO. Otherwise raise the pressure. Also interesting to note is that I believe during the recall Ford was supposed to replace those tire placards with updated ones that read 30 PSI front and 35 rear maybe? I know the newer ones have that (note that Ford isn't the only manufacturer to recommend exactly 26 PSI for an SUV. Although most of the others that do recommend that are much smaller and lighter weight, like the Honda CR-V).

And then we could get into the pressures used in some trucks with LT-rated tires... Like F-350s, Chevy 2500 HDs, Suburbans... A lot of them will read something along the lines of 55 PSI in front and 80 in the rear... that requires at least a load range E LT-tire (80 PSI max). You certainly wouldn't want to goto 35 with these tires if you're carrying a heavy load!

For most FWD passenger cars, 32 PSI seems to be the magic number. Of course they are all different. But 32-35 is generally optimal. Although if you are carrying extra weight quite often (4 people or a lot of heavy stuff) inflating your tires close to the tire's rated maximum wouldn't be a bad idea.

And for the record, radial tires DO wear out the centers quicker if overinflated. I see it nearly every day. I had a friend who put nice new Pirellis (P6's, if I recall correctly) on his Eagle Talon and he way overinflated them. Within a month the rear tires had absolutely no tread left in the center.
 
While Matt has a lot of good information, there is some that needs to be clarified.

1) P metric standard load tires have a maximum load carrying capacity at 35 psi. HOWEVER, there are some circumstances where additional inflation pressure might be called for. So it is permissible to inflate these tires over 35 psi, and some tire manufacturers have adopted the European standard of either 44 or 51 psi on their P metric standard load tires.

2) P metric Extra Load tires have a maximum load carrying capacity at 41 psi. But these also can have circumstances where additional inflation pressure is called for.

3) Tires built to a European standard don't have a P in front of the size and standard load tires of this type have a maximum load capacity at 36 psi. As above, these tires have special circumstances where additional inflation pressure is called for and they may show 44 or even 51 psi as a maximum on the sidewall.

Hope this helps.
 
I've never worn a tire where I could see the 'overinflation' pattern. But I've often seen the 'underinflation' pattern. I run all my tires at max pressure allowed (35 psi).
 
ALL tire manufacturers will tell you to use the psi listed on your vehicle's door/owner's manual for good reason. First, they don't want to get sued
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, and secondly, your manufacturer has decided that x psi gives the best compromise. Sports cars will be lean more towards performance (higher psi) while family sedans will be towards comfort (lower psi).

My wife's CRV recommends 26psi (yikes!) and my Saab 9-5 recommends 32psi (good). However, burried in the manuals, I did notice that for high speed driving, they recommend a higher pressure. Anything sustained over 75mph they say to bump from 26psi to 35psi. And for Saab, anything over 100mph they recommend changing pressure from 32psi to 39psi.

Given that, I know I'm safe running my tires between the high and low ranges. I run 35psi in the Saab and 32psi in the Honda. If I were carrying a full load in either car, I'd bump them up to the max.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Matt-TDI:
This also raises an interesting subject; the Ford/Firestone tire recall with the Explorer. I tend to believe that Ford was more at fault than anyone. They put P-rated tires standard on a 4,000+ pound vehicle. That's perfectly acceptable, but the tire placard in the driver's side door says to inflate to only 26 PSI! Getting away with that pressure on such a heavy vehicle would require an LT-rated tire, not P-metric, IMO. Otherwise raise the pressure. Also interesting to note is that I believe during the recall Ford was supposed to replace those tire placards with updated ones that read 30 PSI front and 35 rear maybe? I know the newer ones have that (note that Ford isn't the only manufacturer to recommend exactly 26 PSI for an SUV. Although most of the others that do recommend that are much smaller and lighter weight, like the Honda CR-V).

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The situation with the Exploder was that the rear pressure was set low to minimize rollover tendencies. OE recommended psi was 30f/26r. After the recall they put a new sticker on saying 30 all around. 26 is kinda low plus most of America goes around with underinflated tires on top of that.
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That said, the ONLY tires with a record of failure were Firestone Wilderness AT's size P235/75-15 built at one particular factory, which you could tell from the serial number. I had such a set on my 99 Ranger and got a free new set of Goodyears.
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Car & Driver did a test with a modified rim that they could quickly deflate by remote control, regardless of what they did at what speed, the Explorer didn't roll over when the tire went flat. This lends creedence to the theory that much of the populace simply doesn't know what to do when they have a blowout. (Oh my!
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A tire went flat, I must wildly swerve the steering wheel back and forth!)
There may be some evidence that Exploders with the full-time 4wd may have been more likely to lose control because the AWD would kick in, sensing differing wheel speeds but I'm not aware of any studies that broke those out separately. IMHO I think some fault lies with Ford and Firestone both.
 
Just my 2c,s worth-- have an old buddy of mine who installed tires all his life (was 1 of the last to still do split rims, truck and equipment) and he once said to put whatever was max psi on tire,He stated that at max psi the full face (tread) of the tire was making contact with the road, have been using his advice for years and have always gotten good tread life out of the tires Ive had no matter what brand they were, Of course Iv,e always rotated also
 
kkat,

Unfortunately, your buddy's advice might work for truck tires (the split rim thing was a clue), but those tires are quite different than passenger car tires.

And I wouldn't go by wear as the gauge to whether the pressure is right or not. If a reasonably inflated tire is properly maintained and rotated regularly, and provided the vehicle alignment isn't too far away from nominal, tires usually will wear well.

Hope this helps.
 
Good thread.

My rule of thumb is never less than 75% of tire sidewall cold pressure maximum. And to keep front/rear balance as manufacturer states (assuming tires of equal or better quality than oem).

As example, the previous owner put E-range good-for-a-year tires on this 1/2 ton Dodge I just bought. 80 psi is max. 60 psi is 75%. I tried to get away with 41f/35r. Absolutely no go as to outer edge tread wear. So, am at 65-psi all around now . . seems like I'm riding on solid rubber tires.

Michelin LTX M/S in the suitable load range is on the list to do (as well as getting rid of this kiddie muffler system).

On the other hand, our 2WD JEEP absolutely loves the 44-psi Kumho's installed and run at JEEP recommended 33-psi all around (75%). Minimal wear across treadblock and overall past 30k.
 
Personally, I figure the vehicle maufacturer had an engineer decide what tire pressure was best for every individual vehicle. I never took any engineering classes and I know nothing about what they do. So, who am I to question the placard on the door. Plus, the tire engineers have also been nice enough to print on the side of the tire that I should follow the vehicle manufacturers reccomendations or tire failure may result. I follow this for passesnger tires only.

Pickup trucks are a differnt story. The pressures listed on the vehicle placard are assuming that the pickup truck is loadd to maximum weight capacity. I do not drive with 1000 lbs. of weight in the back of my truck all of the time. So, I use a similar method to to the chalk line that was discussed earlier and lower the pressure in the tires accordingly. The key to this is to remember to reinflate the tires if you are going to carry a load. If you keep the tires underinflated and load them up with weight you aren't only putting yourself at risk of tire failure while overloaded, but from that pointon because the tires were damaged by the few minutes of underinflation / overloading.
 
quote:

Originally posted by medic:
Personally, I figure the vehicle maufacturer had an engineer decide what tire pressure was best for every individual vehicle. I never took any engineering classes and I know nothing about what they do. So, who am I to question the placard on the door.

I seriously doubt that many automotive chassis design engineers actually use the pressure that is on the placards on the doors of the products they designed.

Automotive chassis design engineers tend to be automotive enthusiasts. The placard pressures are the manufacturers idea of what sells cars best on short test rides.

If we actually knew what the chassis designers wanted to use on their own cars, that would be a good reccomendation. Unfortunately, we don't know that.

Consider the pressure on the placard no more than a safe starting point to figure out what is best for you and your use of your vehicle.
 
Agreed. It depends what agenda the company wants to push at the moment. Johnnyo did a good job explaining what happened with the Firestone/Explorer debacle. It's not necessarily what the engineer recommends, but what the company CEOs want.

One interesting observation on the rollovers... I'm a big fan of these "Wildest Police Videos" programs. It seems that every other segment shows someone blowing out their tires at high speeds, yet the vehicle never flinches and continues in a straight line. Plus all the blowout tests run during the debacle all prove that the average driver (soccer mom?) has a tendency to panic during a high speed blowout and jerk the wheel to pull off the road, resulting in a rollover from driver action.
 
quote:

Originally posted by XS650:
The placard pressures are the manufacturers idea of what sells cars best on short test rides.

I doubt that any manufacturer would do this due to the probabilty of lawsuits. I can see dealers lowering pressure for a better ride during a test drive, but to put artificially low pressures in black and white (for the purpose of a better ride vs. saftey) is a major liability.

Think of the recent vette commercial that was pulled due to liability - and that was minor compaired to this type of behavior
 
quote:

Originally posted by medic:

quote:

Originally posted by XS650:
The placard pressures are the manufacturers idea of what sells cars best on short test rides.

I doubt that any manufacturer would do this due to the probabilty of lawsuits.


There is a wide range of pressures that is safe. The placard pressures are usually lower than optimal for good handling or tire life, but give smoother ride. They are still safe pressures.
 
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