Advice needed on stereo set-up

[wallyuwl]

I have been put in charge of redesigning the the weight room of the high school I coach at. As part of the renovation I'd like to get a decent audio set up.

The room is 22 feet wide by 100 feet long. I was thinking of a receiver and six speakers, one pair of them every 33 feet along the length of the room. I do not want surround sound, just the same stereo signal for each of the three (maybe two, depends on how loud the speakers get in the setup) pairs of speakers. The acoustics are bad in the room, as well. A cd changer (carousel style) would also be nice as a separate component.

What would be a good receiver and speaker set up for this? How would I go about getting each pair to output just the 2 ch. audio?

Thanks for any input.

 

[eljefino]

I'd think seriously about the sound delay of multiple speakers and the echo of the room.

I think it'd work better to have all the speakers on one end, on a stage. If you need a bunch of speakers to make enough noise, have them all grouped together.

Actually hearing stereo separation will be a coup in a hall like this. Go for simple.

 

[dparm]

Agreed, do not spread the speakers out unless the amp has some massive customization options for delay.

I would get a very powerful stereo amp (Crown or similar) and some DJ-style speakers.

 

[wallyuwl]

The delay was also a concern of mine. I know some receivers, even as cheap as $300, have it where the receiver can be calibrated for the delay of surround sound. Anyone know if this can be done with two channel using multiple sets of speakers?

dparm, I would love to go higher end. But I think more than $500 for the audio would not be acceptable to "the powers that be."

Any other thoughts, including on specific models of receivers, cd players, and speakers, would be appreciated. I'd prefer the speakers be bookshelf size, as well, so they can be hung from the ceiling or mounted on a wall.

 

[Papa Bear]

Talk to a sound reinforcement pro. You can have a good audio system at a reasonable price if done right... if done wrong, no amount of money will make it sound right.

 

[sleddriver]

How high is the ceiling? Open trusses? Dropped with acoustical panels? What covers the walls? Floor? Will any conversation be going on? Paging? Yelling over an audio system gets old fast. How many people will be using the space at the same time? Will all be lifting or a combination of weights & mat-work?

Adding audio on top of an already noisy environment(particularly from one end or side) is really distracting.

Need more info....

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
How high is the ceiling? Open trusses? Dropped with acoustical panels? What covers the walls? Floor? Will any conversation be going on? Paging? Yelling over an audio system gets old fast. How many people will be using the space at the same time? Will all be lifting or a combination of weights & mat-work?

Adding audio on top of an already noisy environment(particularly from one end or side) is really distracting.

Need more info....


Yes, lots to consider. No drop ceiling. It is about fifteen feet high maybe, with pipes running along it maybe ten feet or so high. Concrete floor. Cinder block walls. Free weights (including bumpers with Olympic lifting) will be used, plus typical barbell and dumbbell free weight exercises. The audio system would only be used during lifting times, and would be turned off for instructional times.

Because of all the factors involved, I called a company that does home and commercial audio and video, plus security and surveilance set-ups. They do free consultations/estimates. Because we've had problems in the past (and currently) with people taking equipment out of the room and not returning it for weeks at a time, having a company that can also do the surveilance would be good. I am meeting with them on the 22nd.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
Anyone know if this can be done with two channel using multiple sets of speakers?

Any other thoughts, including on specific models of receivers, cd players, and speakers, would be appreciated. I'd prefer the speakers be bookshelf size, as well, so they can be hung from the ceiling or mounted on a wall.

I'd set the receiver on 'mono' to deliver the same signal everywhere. Depending on the receiver, some can drive two pairs of 8-Ohm speakers without overheating or distorting. Or you can go with a 70-volt setup used in commercial settings.

Given the other conditions, I'd use ceiling spkrs pointing down with sufficient overlap to prevent 'holes' in coverage. This alignment also helps mediate echo problems. (Look up at the open ceiling in a commercial grocery/discount/home center and note the speakers and the spacing between them.)

OR you can use one or two of these: http://www.soundsphere.com/
Applications: http://www.soundsphere.com/applications/schools.htm. Play around with the application guide.

Call Soundsphere, give them the details and your budget and ask them for a recommendation. Also ask them for a referral for your area.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver

Given the other conditions, I'd use ceiling spkrs pointing down with sufficient overlap to prevent 'holes' in coverage. This alignment also helps mediate echo problems. (Look up at the open ceiling in a commercial grocery/discount/home center and note the speakers and the spacing between them.)

OR you can use one or two of these: http://www.soundsphere.com/
Applications: http://www.soundsphere.com/applications/schools.htm. Play around with the application guide.

Call Soundsphere, give them the details and your budget and ask them for a recommendation. Also ask them for a referral for your area.


I looked on the Soundsphere web site for their vendors, and emailed them. It looks like it would be expensive, but I guess you don't know until you check it out.

 

[sleddriver]

You may only need one unit and a smaller one at that. Report back what their suggestions are.

 

[LS2JSTS]

If you use the A, B and Remote speaker terminals on almost any consumer receiver/amp besides a multi channel distribution amp you will run into problems. The Ohm load seen by the output transformers and op amps is halved for every pair when they are hooked up and driven simultaneously that way.

If you dont go with distribution amps you could avoid this problem with almost any receiver from Denon. They and I'm sure others have a mode called 5/7 channel stereo. In this mode, you would connect all speakers, 5 or 7 of them to the normal main speaker outputs as if you were setting up a home theatre, but the 5/7 channel stereo mode then sends the same signal to each speaker across the line.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
In this mode, you would connect all speakers, 5 or 7 of them to the normal main speaker outputs as if you were setting up a home theatre, but the 5/7 channel stereo mode then sends the same signal to each speaker across the line.


So, with this do you just have mono sound?

I was thinking about this question with the Soundsphere set-up as well.

 

[LS2JSTS]

I think it's a mix of stereo and matrix channels. When I engage that mode on my Denon Recvr, it sounds like the L, R stereo pair are in stereo with a matrixed signal coming from the center channel, same with the rears. It puts out a BIG sound, great for parties and such, but pretty useless for serious theatre viewing.

Honestly, in that room a mono signal may be fine anyway. I'm guessing that getting a stereo soundstage, with proper seperation is going to be near impossible...and would change drastically depending on your location within the room.

 

[LS2JSTS]

This is the description of the Multi Ch Stereo mode from the Denon OM....

"This mode is for enjoying stereo sound from all speakers.
The same sound as that from the front speakers (L/R) is played back at the
same level from the surround speakers (L/R) and surround back speakers (L/R)"

...I'll have to go engage this mode again, I could have sworn there was a signal at the center channel as well.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
This is the description of the Multi Ch Stereo mode from the Denon OM....

"This mode is for enjoying stereo sound from all speakers.
The same sound as that from the front speakers (L/R) is played back at the
same level from the surround speakers (L/R) and surround back speakers (L/R)"

...I'll have to go engage this mode again, I could have sworn there was a signal at the center channel as well.


OK, thanks. I'll probably either do this or the soundsphere with mono out of them all.

 

[wallyuwl]

I met with one guy today regarding the stereo setup. He actually came out and looked at the room.

His idea is to have a stereo set-up, but both channels/cones would be in the same speaker box. He wants to put 6-8 of these in the room (100' x 22'), essentially partitioning it sound-wise. He thinks this will give the desired results of no dead spots or echoing or delay problems, but also give better sound than a mono setup.

The hardware part seems pretty straight forward - a relatively simple receiver, amp(s) to power the speakers, a CD changer, and possibly things like HD radio compatability and an iPod dock.

This guy can do the Soundsphere thing, but thinks this is a better option.

I am meeting with a guy on Monday as well, then another guy on Wednesday that specialized in the Soundsphere thing. His communication has been bad (not returning emails), so I'm not real impressed so far. He also seems to be thinking that the lower-end speakers (that the web site suggests for things like background music in dept. stores) will do in the room even considering all the extra noise of a weight room. I'm not convinced of that.

 

[CBR.worm]

That may be a good option. I would be inclined to have more speakers at a lower volume and not be able to hear the speakers in the distance - avoiding the echos and not requiring delays. That sounds like the direction he is heading. You may need to do some acoustic treatments to minimize the reflections and get the ambient noise level down. I assume you do not want concert volumes or night club bass.

Using time correction would only work properly for a single listening position, if someone were at the opposite end of the room it would be twice as bad as no delay.

Also the amplifiers in modern home use recievers typically do not have sufficient cooling capacity/build quality to run multiple speakers at reasonable volumes 24/7. Obviously there are some expensive exceptions.

 

[wallyuwl]

A quick update:

The soundsphere rep came out and had a speaker with him. I was not impressed at all with the sound quality.

I'm going to go with the setup using speakers that have both channels in one speaker housing.