Additive Component Chemistry V

MolaKule

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This question involves additives and base oils for a finished, high temperature lubricant. A combination of anti-oxidant(s) AO and anti-wear agents AW comprise about 2.5% of this finished lubricant. The rest of the finished lubricant (about 97.5%) is base oil. In your own words please answer the following questions: Q1: What is the name of this finished lubricant? Q2: what is the base oil? This question is not open to Engineers, Chemists, Formulators, or Tribologists. Swipes and YouTube dumps do not qualify as a valid answer. no-no
 
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In this case, we are talking about temperatures 3 or more times higher than a transmission fluid would ever see. Transmission fluids contain at least a 13% additive package, so a transmission fluid would have 87% base oils.
 

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There are two parts to this question so we need two answers:
Quote:
This question involves additives and base oils for a finished, high temperature lubricant. A combination of anti-oxidant(s) AO and anti-wear agents AW comprise about 2.5% of this finished lubricant. The rest of the finished lubricant (about 97.5%) is base oil. In your own words please answer the following questions: Q1: What is the name of this finished lubricant? Q2: what is the base oil?
 
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Some permutation of top end lube / injector cleaner / snake oil, because It's 97.6% base oil, and, "they're mostly just kerosene anyway"
 

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Originally Posted By: Olas
Some permutation of top end lube / injector cleaner / snake oil, because It's 97.6% base oil, and, "they're mostly just kerosene anyway"
NO, not kerosene, because this is a lubricant for high temperature applications, seeing up to 600F in certain locations in the engine. It has a pour point of -71F. It has an Evaporation loss of 4% at 400°F. It has an Autoignition Temp of 760F. There are two parts to this question so we need two answers: This question involves additives and base oils for a finished, high temperature lubricant.
Quote:
A combination of anti-oxidant(s) AO and anti-wear agents AW comprise about 2.5% of this finished lubricant. The rest of the finished lubricant (about 97.5%) is base oil. In your own words please answer the following questions: Q1: What is the name of this finished lubricant? Q2: what is the base oil?
This question is not open to Engineers, Chemists, Formulators, or Tribologists. Swipes and YouTube dumps do not qualify as a valid answer. no-no
 
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Is this a COMMON fluid?!?!?!
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
Jet turbine oil, ester based?
My first guess.... Or maybe something very rare & exotic... Like Castrol Brayco Micronic 889 MIL-PRF-87252C PAO fluid?
 

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Originally Posted By: Linctex
Is this a COMMON fluid?!?!?!
Common wrt what? It is common in the Aviation industry.
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
Jet turbine oil, ester based?
And Inspecktor submits the correct answers and receives the BITOG virtual Coffee Mug with the Piston Cup Emblem. Jet turbine oil may have the following specifications among many: It has a pour point of -71F. It has an Evaporation loss of 4% at 400°F. It has an Autoignition Temp of 760F. A kinematic viscosity of ~ 5.3 [email protected] The bearing cells in the High Pressure or "hot Section" of Jet turbine engines have to endure very high temperatures in operation and very cold temperatures for a re-start. The only oils qualified for this extreme environment are specialized Polyol Esters or POE's, and contain a Multi-Function phosphporus component with specialized anti-oxidants. Esters in Synthetic Lubricants One of the latest developments in Jet Turbine oils is Mobil Jet 387. https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/aviation/products-and-services/products/mobil-jet-oil-387
 
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Dang, and you wouldn't let me play! grin Just to add a little more data: The first ester based jet engine oils date back to 1953 and were based on a diester (Dioctyl Sebacate). POE based oils were introduced in 1963 (Mobil Jet ll) as a 2nd generation oil. We are now up to 4th generation oils. Most of the current jet engine oils use a Pentaerythritol (PE) type POE base ester made from mono-basic fatty acids from C5 to C10, both linear and sometimes branched. The exception is Eastman 2380 witch is based on a blend of a Trimethylolpropane (TMP) ester and a Dipentaerythritol (DiPE) ester. The POE content runs from 93 to 96 percent. Most use at least two amine type anti-oxidants to exploit synergies. For lower coking the anti-oxidants are alkylated, and the cleanest are oligomers of these alkylated amine AOs. AO content is typically 2-3%. The anti-wear additive is almost exclusively Tricresyl Phosphate (TCP), but there is an EP version that also uses a small amount of an amine terminated partial acid phosphate. The TCP content runs from 2-3% Other additives include a yellow metal inhibitor, a silicone type anti-foam, and sometimes a rust inhibitor. These additives are generally less than 0.2% each. The fluids are at least as much if not more coolants than lubricants. The Air Force uses a lighter oil (3 cSt @ 100°C) because of remote cold bases. Other armed forces and commercial airlines use a 5 cSt oil, and some turboprops use a 7.5 cSt oil to lubricate the reduction gears. The oils contain no detergents, dispersants, or ZDDP, so they are not suitable for car engines! Tom NJ/VA
 

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Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Dang, and you wouldn't let me play! grin Tom NJ/VA
Yep! grin2 That's why I referenced your white paper for further information. Trying to keep things simple and ease the populace into thinking seriously about this mysterious, black magic thing called an, "additive package." I don't think they are ready for the, "mono-basic fatty acids from C5 to C10, both linear and sometimes branched" level of explanation. As far as the phosphorus component, my information is they are now using a Multi-Functional ester, a Phenol-based isopropylated phosphate.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Trying to keep things simple and ease the populace into thinking seriously about this mysterious, black magic thing called an, "additive package." I don't think they are ready for the, "mono-basic fatty acids from C5 to C10, both linear and sometimes branched" level of explanation.
I like your approach! cheers Thought there may be some, especially chemists and aviation enthusiasts, hungry for technical details on these unusual oils.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
As far as the phosphorus component, my information is they are now using a Multi-Functional ester, a Phenol-based isopropylated phosphate.
I am only aware of one qualified jet engine oil using these synthetic "TAPs" (Triarylphosphates). These phosphates have some history of hydrolytic instability in turbine tests and are more popular in fire resistant hydraulic fluids. TCP is favored in jet engine oils, so long as the neurotoxic ortho-isomer content is extremely low, but I don't know what is used in a couple of the newest ones. It's a slow moving product field as full approval for new formulations takes a good 10 years and millions of dollars.
 
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This also sounds close to my rotary screw compressor oil that I use on our problematic Atlas Copco compressors that are inherently designed to KILL ANY PAO (even with some ester) oil and change that machine (even new) into a varnish making machine. Summit Ultima fixed that and it is a ester with only a tad (20 ppm of phosphorus) on a VOA. That's it. https://summit-live-media.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/lubricants/ULTIMAseries_pds.pdf .
 

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This also sounds close to my rotary screw compressor oil that I use on our problematic Atlas Copco compressors that are inherently designed to KILL ANY PAO (even with some ester) oil and change that machine (even new) into a varnish making machine.
The lubricant discussed in this thread topic bears no resemblance to compressor lubricants. Nainia, you may be new here, but this website does not exist for pushing Summit Racing products.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
This also sounds close to my rotary screw compressor oil that I use on our problematic Atlas Copco compressors that are inherently designed to KILL ANY PAO (even with some ester) oil and change that machine (even new) into a varnish making machine.
The lubricant discussed in this thread topic bears no resemblance to compressor lubricants. Nainia, you may be new here, but this website does not exist for pushing Summit Racing products.
First off I am not pushing an oil other then it is what I use at work that has saved my compressors and made my life easier because of it. Also it is not Summit Racing product for cars. It is Summit Industrial Products, a Kluber Company. I was told it was turbine when they first had Mobil/Exxon work with them to find a oil that would not degrade with high heat or problematic designed rotary screws that have a hot spot that bakes PAO's. Sorry if my enthusiasm about an oil seems like "pushing" it. It was never meant it that way. I am just enthusiastic about the fix and finding a good oil to run in my situation, since I battled Atlas and others thinking I was nuts for not excepting a full varnished out air compressor because PAO couldn't handle the heat. Everyone said run the [censored] out of it, I said NO. I was running 75,000+ ppm 4mu and 6um micron counts, now I am down to 1,800. You can pull my posts if it offends anyone. .
 
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