A rotted rear diff housing on a 2018 GM product.

[4WD]

The calcium chloride brine is used as a pre-wetter before the snow starts as an attempt to get ahead of snow accumulating. Once the snow starts salt is used. Once the temperature drops below a certain degree plain salt starts losing it's ability to melt snow. The salt then gets treated with liquid calcium chloride so it can start melting snow again. The reason salt is used is because it is the most effective plus lowest cost method to melt snow. There are several alternatives to salt but they don't work as well and cost more money. In my state people demand the streets be clear of snow instantly and don't think about the long term damage done to cars and the environment. To meet that demand government officials dump tons of salt on the road. Me, I'd love it if salt was not used. Since people want snow free roads to drive on salt will continue to be used until a better low cost alternative is available. Or even better, people should learn how to drive on roads that have a little snow on them so salting isn't needed.

I have seen them make fast hits with CaCl2 in parking lots - so the liquid applications seem quick as well …

 

[GON]

Guys defending salt because it's cheap while their cars rot to the ground. Wonder what the cost difference of the next best less corrosive alternative would be vs the money saved by citizens not having to have repairs like the SMA video. It seems like most of SMA's repairs are salt damage related. I lived in NW Pa for 48 years so I know about salt. My daily driver here is a 2002 Wrangler that I can break any fastener free underneath and spin off by hand. Exhausts last forever. I'd gladly pay a little more road tax if my cars didn't disintegrate if I still lived in Pa.

In the late 1970s most European vehicle manufacturers started to use a copper/ nickel material instead of steel to address the corrosion issues on brake pipes. It works. Many European manufactures also better used undercarriage plates to reduce salt from entering the underneath of the vehicles.

GM historically has not cared about the impact of salt on the buyers of their vehicles. Washing many GM vehicles was never a solution. A good example was the highly popular Chevy Blazer/ Olds Bravado. During normal driving, salt would enter the undercarriage, salt would lodge above the fuel pump. The salt would not be able to exit the vehicle after an undercarriage wash. This resulted in the fuel lines rotting at the fuel pump 24x7/ 365 days per year. This was an issue for two decades, and there were numerous ways to prevent / reduce the impact of this issue of rusting fuel lines at the fuel pump. But GM never ever cared about its most loyal customers, who were working class people of the northeast and upper Midwest of the U.S.

GM arrogance over rusting brake pipes and fuel pipes, while GM's European counterparts took significant action to reduce the impact of salt, is why I switched from only buying GM vehicles for 20+ years to no longer buying GM vehicles. And of note, my 2005 Mercedes S500 with over 250k miles, and a lot of the miles in a salted road environment, never had a single issue with rusting brake pipe or rusting fuel lines.

 

[burbguy82]

In the late 1970s most European vehicle manufacturers started to use a copper/ nickel material instead of steel to address the corrosion issues on brake pipes. It works. Many European manufactures also better used undercarriage plates to reduce salt from entering the underneath of the vehicles.

GM historically has not cared about the impact of salt on the buyers of their vehicles. Washing many GM vehicles was never a solution. A good example was the highly popular Chevy Blazer/ Olds Bravado. During normal driving, salt would enter the undercarriage, and the slat would lodge above the fuel pump. The salt would not be able to exit the vehicle after an undercarriage wash. This resulted in the fuel lines rotting at the fuel pump. This was an issue for two decades, and there were numerous ways to prevent / reduce the impact of this issue of rusting fuel lines at the fuel pump. But GM never ever cared about its most loyal customers, who were working class people of the northeast and upper Midwest of the U.S.

GM arrogance over rusting brake pipes and fuel pipes, while GM's European counterparts took significant action to reduce the impact of salt, is why I switched from only buying GM vehicles for 20+ years to no longer buying GM vehicles. And of note, my 2005 Mercedes S500 with over 250k miles, and a lot of the miles in a salted road environment, never had a single issue with rusting brake pipe or rusting fuel lines.

right so salt does not effect Mercedes metal, but GM metal, got it.

 

[burbguy82]

ODOT uses magnesium chloride (MgCl2) with corrosion inhibitor and solid salt (NaCl), both as an anti-icer before a storm to help prevent ice and snow from bonding to the road, and as a deicer after a storm to help break the bond between ice and road.

 

[GON]

right so salt does not effect Mercedes metal, but GM metal, got it.

Putting deliberate effort into the design to reduce the impact of salt, along with what materials to use, can make all the difference in the world when it comes to the impact of salt on a motor vehicle.

GM chose to save $15 +/- per vehicle instead of reducing the impact of salt on its vehicles, at the expense of the hardworking people of the upper Midwest and northeast.

Here was my fix on rotting GM brake pipes on a 2000 Olds Bravada with 60k miles. If I can reduce the impact of salt on the brake pipes in this Bravada for under $100 USD by installing copper nickel brake pipe, I am sure GM could have done the same for likely under $10 per vehicle. But GM simply didn't care... at all, where the European manufactures did care. Just that simple, not rocket science.

And of note, the brake pipe failed on this well taken care of Olds Bravada while my wife was in the parking lot of a grocery store. Imagine if it the brake pipe had failed at a panic stop at highway speeds. The fail point of the brake pipe was near the fuel pump. This was a 20 year old design, GM had many, many years to fix this design flaw, but cared less. This on a 60k mile vehicle. This was the reason I quit buying GM, from a loyal GM buyer.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Putting deliberate effort into the design to reduce the impact of salt, along with what materials to use, can make all the difference in the world when it comes to the impact of salt on a motor vehicle.

GM chose to save $15 +/- per vehicle instead of reducing the impact of salt on its vehicles, at the expense of the hardworking people of the upper Midwest and northeast.

Here was my fix on rotting GM brake pipes on a 2000 Olds Bravada with 60k miles. If I can reduce the impact of salt on the brake pipes in this Bravada for under $100 USD by installing copper nickel brake pipe, I am sure GM could have done the same for likely under $10 per vehicle. But GM simply didn't care... at all, where the European manufactures did care. Just that simple, not rocket science.

And of note, the brake pipe failed on this well taken care of Olds Bravada while my wife was in the parking lot of a grocery store. Imagine if it the brake pipe had failed at a panic stop at highway speeds. The fail point of the brake pipe was near the fuel pump. This was a 20 year old design, GM had many, many years to fix this design flaw, but cared less. This on a 60k mile vehicle. This was the reason I quit buying GM, from a loyal GM buyer.

View attachment 223528View attachment 223527

Had this exact thing happen on a 2000 Silverado. Both the brake line and fuel line developed leaks because of rust. My teenage son was driving when the brake line let go. Thankfully it happened when he was was leaving the house and stepped on the brakes at the end of the driveway.

 

[spasm3]

Is that really from corrosion? Looks like cracks to me, even in the clean area of the housing looks cracked.

 

[Kurtatron]

right so salt does not effect Mercedes metal, but GM metal, got it.

You can make steel alloys that are much more resistant to corrosion. It’s not simple as metal is the same between manufacturers. Tons of things to differentiate them.

 

[Kurtatron]

This is why I left the north. Those winters are brutal on machine AND man. 6 months of cold and grey overcast. Enough to make me leave real quick after 8 years.

 

[GON]

You can make steel alloys that are much more resistant to corrosion. It’s not simple as metal is the same between manufacturers. Tons of things to differentiate them.

One only needs to look at copper "L" and "M" used in many residential houses to deliver water to faucets, etc. Same exact copper material. Copper L is thicker than copper M, and the thickness provides significantly more resistance/ protection to a pipe leaking.

For decades GM has gone as cheap as possible with its brake pipe and fuel line materials. This is a significant issue to GM's most loyal customers that reside in the Northeast and Upper Midwest. Other manufacturers have taken a different action to reduce brake pipe failure from salt corrosion, willing to spend $15 +/- per vehicle to significantly reduce the likeliness of brake pipe failure from salt corrosion.

Not rocket science- simply GM not caring. Just that simple.

 

[burbguy82]

You can make steel alloys that are much more resistant to corrosion. It’s not simple as metal is the same between manufacturers. Tons of things to differentiate them.

Oh I get it and agree 100%, but there is nothing special about Mercedes steel in comparison. Mercedes makes likely the best car out there, but soak it in salt and we will see, they will rust just like anything else.

Part of this I would argue is the common person would buys a Chevy rather than a Mercedes. Not a derogatory comment, I am not poor, and do not own a Mercedes, but it is likely that the Mercedes owner takes a bit better care, especially if they have had it for 20 years.

Remove the salt, the issue stops, or at least slows to many lifetimes.

 

[GON]

Oh I get it and agree 100%, but there is nothing special about Mercedes steel in comparison. Mercedes makes likely the best car out there, but soak it in salt and we will see, they will rust just like anything else.

Part of this I would argue is the common person would buys a Chevy rather than a Mercedes. Not a derogatory comment, I am not poor, and do not own a Mercedes, but it is likely that the Mercedes owner takes a bit better care, especially if they have had it for 20 years.

Remove the salt, the issue stops, or at least slows to many lifetimes.

On the W220 Mercedes S-class built from 1999-2006, MY 1999-2002 had significant rust issues. Mercedes changed the steel used in these vehicles from 2003-2006 and the rust problem stopped.

On the Chevy Blazers made from OOA 1982- 2002, GM never changed the material in their brake pipes, nor revised the design that prevented salt from accumulating over the fuel pump causing premature fuel line rot.

That is the difference between GM and Mercedes, not the owner- the care of the manufactures is the difference.

 

[edyvw]

Oh I get it and agree 100%, but there is nothing special about Mercedes steel in comparison. Mercedes makes likely the best car out there, but soak it in salt and we will see, they will rust just like anything else.

Part of this I would argue is the common person would buys a Chevy rather than a Mercedes. Not a derogatory comment, I am not poor, and do not own a Mercedes, but it is likely that the Mercedes owner takes a bit better care, especially if they have had it for 20 years.

Remove the salt, the issue stops, or at least slows to many lifetimes.

Actually steel is better. It is also Zinc plated.
Salt is used A LOT in Europe. GM Had these issues in Europe in 80’s and beginning of 90’s with Opel/Vauxhall. I owned 1988 Opel Ascona Irmscher and it was gaining performance as it was getting older due to loss of weight as it was rusting. Until rear spring went through the floor.
VW, Mercedes, BMW didn’t have those issues and Ford was just bit better. And I lived in environment where they used salt like crazy.

 

[edyvw]

On the W220 Mercedes S-class built from 1999-2006, MY 1999-2002 had significant rust issues. Mercedes changed the steel used in these vehicles from 2003-2006 and the rust problem stopped.

On the Chevy Blazers made from OOA 1982- 2002, GM never changed the material in their brake pipes, nor revised the design that prevented salt from accumulating over the fuel pump causing premature fuel line rot.

That is the difference between GM and Mercedes, not the owner- the care of the manufactures is the difference.

1995 E class also had issues inside the doors. They did cheapened product with that E class. After that they were catching up too.
Actually 2013 E class has big issues around rear subframe bushings. Not sure why they leave some parts unprotected while others are top notch.

 

[burbguy82]

On the W220 Mercedes S-class built from 1999-2006, MY 1999-2002 had significant rust issues. Mercedes changed the steel used in these vehicles from 2003-2006 and the rust problem stopped.

On the Chevy Blazers made from OOA 1982- 2002, GM never changed the material in their brake pipes, nor revised the design that prevented salt from accumulating over the fuel pump causing premature fuel line rot.

That is the difference between GM and Mercedes, not the owner- the care of the manufactures is the difference.

Thanks for your opinion. I have a GMT400 Suburban 1999, which was sold new in Boone, NC. Bought it 12 years ago from the original owner, no rust at all. No where. Boone uses salt consistently in town and in the mountain passes in the winter. He took care of the truck.

 

[edyvw]

Thanks for your opinion. I have a GMT400 Suburban 1999, which was sold new in Boone, NC. Bought it 12 years ago from the original owner, no rust at all. No where. Boone uses salt consistently in town and in the mountain passes in the winter. He took care of the truck.

It is NC “winter.” Salt might be used, but nowhere near in quantities that are used in the Northeast. Also, winter is much shorter.

 

[SHOZ]

I usually drive my cars till the rust kills them and have never seen anything like that. Almost like it was a factory coating failure or it was driven through something more corrosive than road salt. Been driven at the ocean beach?

 

[burbguy82]

It is NC “winter.” Salt might be used, but nowhere near in quantities that are used in the Northeast. Also, winter is much shorter.

Look, dont come of like I know nothing of winter......I lived in NE Wyoming for 2 years, where it is way colder than where you are constantly...by at least 20 degrees if not more. In NC, it gets in the negatives here in the winter sparingly, but in the mountains, in gets negative quite a bit this past winter -10 was reached several times., and its humid, where you are it is not, no issue for machines, but big difference in how it feels. We get ice storms here that disable towns. So lets not go down that road.

They salt the roads constantly all around that area. And the vehicles there are rust buckets.

 

[JTK]

I usually drive my cars till the rust kills them and have never seen anything like that. Almost like it was a factory coating failure or it was driven through something more corrosive than road salt. Been driven at the ocean beach?

I think @Trav nailed it earlier in the thread. This is a "cheap" Korean/Chinese GM import product made to a price point. This doesn't help it's corrosion resistance at all. Econo cars always rotted out faster in the PR of NY and being an econo car, people tend not to put money into rust proofing them in the first place. It's a shame too because something as simple as a nice greasy coating of a lanolin product all up under this Daewoo would have kept it like new. That's a catchy rhyme!

 

[dishdude]

On the W220 Mercedes S-class built from 1999-2006, MY 1999-2002 had significant rust issues. Mercedes changed the steel used in these vehicles from 2003-2006 and the rust problem stopped.

On the Chevy Blazers made from OOA 1982- 2002, GM never changed the material in their brake pipes, nor revised the design that prevented salt from accumulating over the fuel pump causing premature fuel line rot.

That is the difference between GM and Mercedes, not the owner- the care of the manufactures is the difference.

So did Mercedes go back and change all the metal on the 1999-2002 cars?