A Newer BMW?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by KCJeep
I've read this whole thread and still can't get my head around the idea that any Honda is an alternative to a BMW.

For the needs of a vast majority of drivers a Honda is a good alternative. I know this is anecdotal but I rarely see BMW's road tripping outside of urban centers. The vast majority are grocery/commuters where a Honda which offers about 7/10's of the BMW is a perfect substitute.

True, most BMW's are staying in urban environments. BMW engineers complained about that, that they see strictly US related issues on their cars due to that.
I had X5 three year, did 6 trips 3000 miles and more, with last summer trip of 5,114 miles.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by KCJeep
I've read this whole thread and still can't get my head around the idea that any Honda is an alternative to a BMW.

For the needs of a vast majority of drivers a Honda is a good alternative. I know this is anecdotal but I rarely see BMW's road tripping outside of urban centers. The vast majority are grocery/commuters where a Honda which offers about 7/10's of the BMW is a perfect substitute.

True, most BMW's are staying in urban environments. BMW engineers complained about that, that they see strictly US related issues on their cars due to that.
I had X5 three year, did 6 trips 3000 miles and more, with last summer trip of 5,114 miles.


IIIRC years ago I read that the US driving environment was to blame for oiling issues of the E39M5. What have you heard lately?

 

[RooflessVW]

I think our driving cycle is to blame for lots of things. Only in the US would you fire up an M5 for a 2 mile drive to work in the dead of winter - and pin the throttle, why not?

 

[BearZDefect]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
... Only in the US would you fire up an M5 for a 2 mile drive to work in the dead of winter - and pin the throttle, why not?

People do that all over the world, all it takes is to have surplus money and a careless attitude.
And BMW surely prevents WOT on a cold engine.

It's true that we Americans could benefit from walking more, but we are not the only ones starting a car to travel 2 miles.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by BearZDefect
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
... Only in the US would you fire up an M5 for a 2 mile drive to work in the dead of winter - and pin the throttle, why not?

People do that all over the world, all it takes is to have surplus money and a careless attitude.
And BMW surely prevents WOT on a cold engine.

It's true that we Americans could benefit from walking more, but we are not the only ones starting a car to travel 2 miles.


I'm quite certain my E39 M5 didn't prevent WOT on a cold engine. It had a variable redline that ADVISED you to not go WOT on the cold engine, but you could certainly do it if so inclined.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by BearZDefect
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
... Only in the US would you fire up an M5 for a 2 mile drive to work in the dead of winter - and pin the throttle, why not?

People do that all over the world, all it takes is to have surplus money and a careless attitude.
And BMW surely prevents WOT on a cold engine.

It's true that we Americans could benefit from walking more, but we are not the only ones starting a car to travel 2 miles.

Well, the type of Germans (at least, my circle) that had a serious performance car either had winter beaters or knew how to take care of their cars.

Germany is also unique in that if you live in a city you'll typically take public transport daily and use the car for transit between cities, or if you live in a village you're typically in the car long enough to get it up to operating temp.

 

[BearZDefect]

To clarify, I wasn't pointing at Germany when I wrote "all over the world."
I have no doubt there are Germans who are careful with their vehicles, just as there are Americans and Canadians.

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted by Patman
They are gouging you then, because even fully loaded 2019 convertibles here are listed for just over $70k. It would be cheaper to find the one you want here in Ontario and have it shipped there for probably not much more than $1500.

I expect that could have been the out the door price (though I didn't ask specifically). This was by way of a preliminary discussion. It's possible they're gouging, or he might have made a mistake - talking without looking.

In years past, cars seemed to be a bit cheaper in Ontario just not enough to warrant most people going there to get one. And that may have only applied to locally built cars, where a local pick up could save on freight.

As much as I'd like an M240i it's not going to tick another box that I hadn't thought of earlier. We have friends from all over the country and get a lot of visitors. [We live in greater Victoria - for Canadians that's enough said!] We often pick up those visitors at the airport or at the ferry. An M240i isn't going to carry 4 adults with too much luggage. Our current Honda Accord can do that easily but when it gets old (+/- 5 years) I plan to replace it with a small electric vehicle for local use. We do intend to keep 2 vehicles, but there's no room in the garage for 3.

I question whether a 440i could tick the airport duty box either. And being a coupe, might not be easy for "olders" to get into the back. I'm going to have to check it out. I suppose we could take 2 cars for all pick ups but that's a bit inconvenient.

So: no recent 3s (all automatics), no recent 5s (all automatics). And a 7 is too big and too expensive.

As I started off saying, maybe BMW doesn't make a car for me anymore. And if I were to give up on the requirement for a manual transmission, all sorts of vehicles would come into focus (Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, Lexus, Mazda 6, even Buick Regal). Or I could stick with the requirement for a (1) reliable engine with a dipstick, (2) manual transmission, and (3) spare tire and get serious about a 2018/19 Honda Accord Sport or a 2019 Mazda 3.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by KCJeep
I've read this whole thread and still can't get my head around the idea that any Honda is an alternative to a BMW.

For the needs of a vast majority of drivers a Honda is a good alternative. I know this is anecdotal but I rarely see BMW's road tripping outside of urban centers. The vast majority are grocery/commuters where a Honda which offers about 7/10's of the BMW is a perfect substitute.

True, most BMW's are staying in urban environments. BMW engineers complained about that, that they see strictly US related issues on their cars due to that.
I had X5 three year, did 6 trips 3000 miles and more, with last summer trip of 5,114 miles.


IIIRC years ago I read that the US driving environment was to blame for oiling issues of the E39M5. What have you heard lately?

Excessive fuel in oil. But that is know issues among other cars too.

 

[ecotourist]

There's another only slightly wacky solution. (1) Keep the BMW that's already in the garage (reliable engine with dip stick. manual transmission, full size spare tire on an alloy wheel, comfortably carries 4 people with too much luggage) and spend the money needed to keep it going as a sort of hobby car. (2) Keep the Honda as our main car for now. (3) If Honda and Mazda are going to stop making manual transmissions buy their latest car with a manual transmission to replace our (by then) older Honda.

Meanwhile, I have to wonder if there isn't a niche for an auto maker who builds cars for people who want cars like I do. BMW seems to have abandoned the field.

Maybe Mazda could step up and start building these updated "old style BMWs". Mazda is a small company with an independent mind that builds cars with a "Zoom, Zoom" spirit, so why not. They're half way there already. They just can't call them BMWs.

 

[2008wrx]

hard to find manual transmission car in the USA, that's the issue. Not they are discontinued. Subaru still have dip stick and manual trans vehicle.

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted by 2008wrx
hard to find manual transmission car in the USA, that's the issue. Not they are discontinued. Subaru still have dip stick and manual trans vehicle.

Yes you can get an Impreza with a manual transmission in Canada, but not a Legacy (which would be a better size for 4 passengers with too much luggage).

 

[edyvw]

I just do not understand how Honda and BMW are in same ctaegory? Transverse mounted engine with FWD based platform somehow compares to longitudinal mounted (way back also) engine with RWD platform?
I mean I have to ask this: are you getting BMW for dynamic driving properties or because it has nice spare tire, and nice stick shift lever?
Alternative here is Audi. Longitudinal engine, and although it is FWD platform, at least more power goes to rear wheels. Has spare, has dipstick.
Honda? Give me a break.

 

[gofast182]

I think if you read the reviews of the new Accord you'd understand that it has better chassis dynamics/tuning than anything in its class. And since you mentioned Audi...
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/aud...da-accord-20t-touring-comparison-review/

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted by edyvw
I just do not understand how Honda and BMW are in same ctaegory? Transverse mounted engine with FWD based platform somehow compares to longitudinal mounted (way back also) engine with RWD platform?
I mean I have to ask this: are you getting BMW for dynamic driving properties or because it has nice spare tire, and nice stick shift lever?
Alternative here is Audi. Longitudinal engine, and although it is FWD platform, at least more power goes to rear wheels. Has spare, has dipstick.
Honda? Give me a break.

An Accord Sport 2.0 6MT is very good. If you haven't driven one, I suggest you do so.

I also prefer a rear drive system. I've owned many. I like the idea of tightening your line with acceleration in a tight corner. If it were only me in the car I'd probably go for an M240i or a 440i. But I need a car that will also carry 4 adults, some with too much luggage.

Several years ago R&T compared a large group of all-wheel drive sport sedans - including a BMW. As they said, in the past when you reviewed a group of sport sedans, you had a number of sharp knives and one scalpel (the BMW of course). But then BMW "improved" its steering. And everyone else did actually improve. And now you had a number of sharp knives. Of six reviewers, the three young guys preferred the Subaru and the three old guys preferred the Audi.

And a few years ago I met a group of auto enthusiasts for coffee (they drove an Audi, a VW GTI, a Mustang GT, a Panos, and a BMW coupe). I told them that over the weekend I had test driven a car and it was the most fun I'd had in years. So what was it? They looked at one another and then all said "Mazda 3". And they were right.

So there is competition.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by ecotourist
I told them that over the weekend I had test driven a car and it was the most fun I'd had in years. So what was it? They looked at one another and then all said "Mazda 3". And they were right.
Seriously? What year Mazda 3 was it?

I test drove a new one in 2006, and found nothing exciting about it. Right after that I went out and bought my 530i.

Some years later I had a Mazda 3 rental, and again, it felt like being in a penalty box.

Are the new ones that much better?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by gofast182
I think if you read the reviews of the new Accord you'd understand that it has better chassis dynamics/tuning than anything in its class. And since you mentioned Audi...
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/aud...da-accord-20t-touring-comparison-review/

In its class! What is that class? Camry! Altima! Malibu! etc.
I read that test, and in car that big having transverse engine is immediately big no!
Audi in that class is also FWD, but at least engine is mounted right way and A4 is now coming "tuned" for North American market. When manufacturer says they tuned suspension for NA market that usually means they screwed up stuff.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by ecotourist
Originally Posted by edyvw
I just do not understand how Honda and BMW are in same ctaegory? Transverse mounted engine with FWD based platform somehow compares to longitudinal mounted (way back also) engine with RWD platform?
I mean I have to ask this: are you getting BMW for dynamic driving properties or because it has nice spare tire, and nice stick shift lever?
Alternative here is Audi. Longitudinal engine, and although it is FWD platform, at least more power goes to rear wheels. Has spare, has dipstick.
Honda? Give me a break.

An Accord Sport 2.0 6MT is very good. If you haven't driven one, I suggest you do so.

I also prefer a rear drive system. I've owned many. I like the idea of tightening your line with acceleration in a tight corner. If it were only me in the car I'd probably go for an M240i or a 440i. But I need a car that will also carry 4 adults, some with too much luggage.

Several years ago R&T compared a large group of all-wheel drive sport sedans - including a BMW. As they said, in the past when you reviewed a group of sport sedans, you had a number of sharp knives and one scalpel (the BMW of course). But then BMW "improved" its steering. And everyone else did actually improve. And now you had a number of sharp knives. Of six reviewers, the three young guys preferred the Subaru and the three old guys preferred the Audi.

And a few years ago I met a group of auto enthusiasts for coffee (they drove an Audi, a VW GTI, a Mustang GT, a Panos, and a BMW coupe). I told them that over the weekend I had test driven a car and it was the most fun I'd had in years. So what was it? They looked at one another and then all said "Mazda 3". And they were right.

So there is competition.

Was in same dilemma in 2015. Kid on the way, and I got 2013 BMW X5 35d. It handles and drives better than anything in Camry/Accord class. However, it turned out not to be ideal vehicle for family. So I got Toyota Sienna. Why? Because if one truly wants practical vehicle for family or four adults, nothing beats minivan. Plus, minivans are cheap, no one wants it anymore. They think they are cool in Highlander or Pilot, which are same crap as minivan, just less practical.
So got minivan, so I can have enough money for toy on a side, which is going to be probably BMW E90 with stick. No oil dipstick? No problem, sensor proved reliable. No spare? No problem, will get donut and put in trunk. Did it with X5 since it had 7 seats.

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by ecotourist
I told them that over the weekend I had test driven a car and it was the most fun I'd had in years. So what was it? They looked at one another and then all said "Mazda 3". And they were right.
Seriously? What year Mazda 3 was it?

I test drove a new one in 2006, and found nothing exciting about it. Right after that I went out and bought my 530i.

Some years later I had a Mazda 3 rental, and again, it felt like being in a penalty box.

Are the new ones that much better?

It was 5 - 7 years ago so probably a 2012 - 2014 model. It was a bit like a Miata with a back seat. I suppose it's a bit of the "driving a slow car fast" thing. Like driving really hard in a Bug-eye Sprite, where no-one outside notices anything unusual.

My daughter's partner drives a 3 or 4 year old Mazda 3 and raves about what a great car it is.

We looked at a 2018 Mazda 3 a few weeks ago but didn't drive it because we'd want a 2019 with its prettier design and bigger trunk. But we were able to sit behind ourselves in the 2018 (though it's no-where near as big as the Accord of course). We were surprised by what a nice car the 2018 was (considering the price) and I understand the 2019 is quite a bit nicer.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Seriously? What year Mazda 3 was it?

I test drove a new one in 2006, and found nothing exciting about it. Right after that I went out and bought my 530i.

Some years later I had a Mazda 3 rental, and again, it felt like being in a penalty box.

Are the new ones that much better?



I'll have to say that my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 was an absolute riot- especially once I added the Mazdaspeed intake, Hypertech tune, Koni FSDs, and a rear ARB with 50% more roll stiffness. It was still comfortable enough to drive on a daily basis, but it was a monster on a winding rural two lane.