My sister added some old prestone coolant (with silicates I think) to my honda accord V6 which isn't supposed to have them in it. It wasn't very much but I'm a little concerned. Do you think I need to flush it or will it be okay till it's scheduled change?
a little help
- Thread starter DR
- Start date
- Status
How much is some? If she just added it to the coolant overflow bottle, I'd for sure flush that immediately since that's easy to do. Other than that, I'd have to research this more to give you a better answer, but I do know Hondas are real fussy as to what kind of coolant you put in them, i.e., if you want to keep it for a long time.
Yeah, she just added a little bit, as much as a quart maybe, to get it up to the full line in the reserve. As for fussiness, the manual says it is, but then Honda makes it sound like your car will explode if you don't use genuine Honda floor mats with anchor holes.
Flush it with distilled water until it drains clear and refill it with Honda Antifreeze/Coolant* & distilled water in a 50/50 mix. That quart represents more than 10% of your cooling system's volume and that's too much conventional antifreeze to live harmoniously with Honda's (or anyone else's) extended life juice. Whatever it costs to do it right will be made up in extended water pump life. (which are neither cheap nor easy to replace on most OHC/FWD cars these days...)
*I'm NOT one of those who believes there's something magical about Honda Antifreeze/Coolant, nor do I believe that Hondas are any fussier about the brand of antifreeze/coolant than any other make. Honda, like virtually all Asian imports, has joined the "OAT" (organic acid technology) corrosion inhibitor bandwagon and those products work very well in Hondas. I used DEX-COOL in my Accord with absolutely no problems for over three years. My 2003 Sonata will be coming up soon for its first cooling system flush and it'll be getting the newly introduced SuperTech extended life antifreeze and distilled water treatment. (same ingredients as Prestone's GM approved, licensed DEX-COOL, but only $5.64/gallon jug). But, if you're concerned and don't mind Honda's gotcha-by-the-short-hairs pricing, the Honda fluid is definitely very good.
*I'm NOT one of those who believes there's something magical about Honda Antifreeze/Coolant, nor do I believe that Hondas are any fussier about the brand of antifreeze/coolant than any other make. Honda, like virtually all Asian imports, has joined the "OAT" (organic acid technology) corrosion inhibitor bandwagon and those products work very well in Hondas. I used DEX-COOL in my Accord with absolutely no problems for over three years. My 2003 Sonata will be coming up soon for its first cooling system flush and it'll be getting the newly introduced SuperTech extended life antifreeze and distilled water treatment. (same ingredients as Prestone's GM approved, licensed DEX-COOL, but only $5.64/gallon jug). But, if you're concerned and don't mind Honda's gotcha-by-the-short-hairs pricing, the Honda fluid is definitely very good.
Thanks for the help guys and I've just got one more question for you. I'm pretty new to DIY stuff other than oil changes, could you give me a quick walk thru on a coolant flush or point me to where there might be one. It would be much appreciated.
DR
DR
Wait until the engine's cool. Set your car's heat control to "high" if you have a manual HVAC system. If you have an automatic thermostate controlled HVAC system, set it to manual and then set the heat control to "high". The idea is to open the flow control valve to the heater core so it gets flushed, too. There'll be a petcock plug on the lower radiator shell. You may need the help of pliers to loosen it, but do NOT retighten it with pliers! Don't lose the rubber o-ring either. The radiator upper and lower shells are plastic as is the petcock. Ruin the petcock and you'll be out a couple of bucks and time to buy another one. Strip the threads in the lower radiator shell, and you're guaranteed to have a real bad day. Firm finger tight WILL seal, and it'll tend to lock in place over time as the o-ring adheres to the lower radiator tank. Loosen the petcock plug to drain the radiator and have a pan capable of holding a gallon and a half under it to catch the old coolant. The stuff is very toxic and attracts dogs and cats due to its pleasant aroma and sweet taste. Kills 'em dead. If you spill antifreeze on your car's finish, rinse it off as soon as possible - it's a great paint stripper. Some communities allow dumping directly into the sanitary sewage system. If yours doesn't, you'll need to transfer the first couple of flushings to a container for recycling. NEVER dump into a septic tank system. Never dump into a storm drain (not the same as the sanitary sewage lines). Once you've emptied the radiator, tighten the petcock and refill the radiator with distilled or de-ionized water (distilled is less than 60 cents/gallon at Wal*mart - buying 6 or 7 sacrificial gallons is a minimal expense to do the job right). If the original charge emptied with sediment, you'll need to do a chemical flush to dissolve and rid the system of corrosion. Going that route will be very unlikely on a Honda with factory fill fluid - even briefly contaminated with silicate-phosphate laden conventional antifreeze/coolant. Leave the radiator cap OFF, but start the engine and allow it to idle until the cooliong fan(s) behind the radiator come on twice. At that point you know the engine's own thermostat has opened and full coolant flow is going through the engine and heater core. Keep an eye on the coolant level through all this and top up as needed. Once you've completed this, loosen the petcock and drain the radiator again. To completely flush the cooling system you have two options. 1> wrestle with hard-to-reach drain plugs on each cylinder bank, or 2> simply repeat the radiator drains and flushes until the effluent from the radiator runs clear. If the latter, remember each time to wait for the radiator cooling fans to come on twice before shutting down the engine and draining the radiator again. Once you're satisfied you've got all the old contaminated fluid out, tighten the petcock a final time. What's left in the cooling system is distilled water - probably about half the capacity. Refill the radiator with the required amount of Honda or other extended-life antifreeze concentrate. You should just about be at the nominal 50% concentration. By using distilled or de-ionized water throughout the procedure you don't have to worry about hard water problems down the road. Once you're done, you're not quite done. Check the thermostat housing (a domed-like aluminum casting that the upper radiator hose attaches to) for a screw plug. If present, it's an airlock relief plug. With the engine idling, just loosen it a bit (DON'T remove it!) and watch for a steady stream of coolant spurting out. Tighten it. (pour a little water to flush any coolant puddles on or around the engine) Congratulations! You've just purged any remaining air in the cooling system. The last thing is to remove the coolant overflow bottle. Just disconnect the bottle's cap from the bottle and lift the bottle straight up (Honda deserves Kudos for this commopn sense approach!) Empty it into a safe container, and rinse it out with distilled water. Replace it and refill it with a 50/50 mix of distilled water and whatever antifreeze/coolant you bought. Job done, and done right because YOU took the care to make sure. Watch the overlow bottle for several days. It'll almost certainly go down a bit, so maintain a check and add more mix as needed to avoid drawing air into the system until the level stabilizes. (air intrusion into an extended-life coolant system is BAD medicine) Hope this didn't scare you off. It's not rocket science, but you do have to approach the procedure methodically and conscientiously. It IS time consuming, though. Figure half a day shot - much of it waiting around while the engine warms up repeatedly.
[ August 14, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
[ August 14, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
The only I do diffently from Ray's excellent method is to find the total cooling system capacity in the owner's manual. After the flush and drain, close the drains. Add pure antifreeze for half the capacity. Now, top off with distilled water. I've never been able to get the system completely drained. This way you get the correct amount of antifreeze.
Ken
Ken
I kinda' wondered about this for a while, but since I haven't had to deal with it on my Honda yet, I haven't researched this as thoroughly as you apparently have.
The most credible thing I read was from a mechanic on one of the Honda newsgroups. I say credible, because I've read several dozens of his posts and I can tell by his knowledge and advice that he has a pretty good knowledge of cars and Hondas in particular. Anyways, he has always told people to use the expensive Honda dealer coolant exclusively for not only compatibility reasons but also because there's some kind of water pump lubricant or something in it that allows the Hondas waterpumps to live a very long life.
So...after reading your post above, I'm beginning to wonder if he's just being very conservative because of his lack of in depth knowledge on Honda coolant make up, or if what his says has some merit to it.
I guess the question I have for you is, are you totally confident that any organic acid technology coolant will suffice in Hondas, assuming of course a fully flushed system with distilled water in it?
BTW, very nice post on the flush procedure.
DR is that coolant you bought already mixed with water? Does it say something like it's 50/50 concentration or some such?
You might then have to modify the above procedure. If half of the stuff that remains in the engine is distilled water, and you fill it with 50/50 mix, you'll end up with a ~25/75 concentration. You'll then have to drain the radiator and refill once more (after you run it up to full temp again) to get close to a 40/60 concentration, which I believe is the minimum you'd want to run.
Shoot, 427Z06, I'm not even certain I'll wake up tomorrow morning, but in answer to your question, I'm as confident as I can be based on my own experience running Havoline DEX-COOL in my '96 Accord for three years. That, and several posts from other Honda owners who've had the same experience. It's anecdotal at best, but it's all I got for 'ya!
The dealer knows that with factory coolant there's little, if any, chance of corrosion in a Honda's cooling system. (I inadvertenly went an extra year on my '96 Accord's factory fill because I mis-read the owner's manual. When I finally did drain and flush, it drained clear, perfectly transparent green, and no sediment whatsoever. What I could see of the radiator core viewing through the filler opening showed clean metal with no deposits or scaling.) So for their techs a coolant swapout consists of draining the radiator and refilling with premix. (I'm not even convinced they routinely remove the engine block's drain plugs.) With that in mind, your dealer has no reason to stock the concentrate. And, the premix uses de-ionized water, so the dealership doesn't have to bother stocking distilled or de-ionized water, either. Trouble is, the dealer never figured on your sister (who, I'm sure, is really a very thoughtful and intelligent person whose efforts to be helpful inadvertently backfired in this instance). If you can find a nearby Honda dealer who stocks Honda's antifreeze/coolant concentrate, it would simplify your task with a minimum of waste.
DR, please forgive me. I think I screwed up here. I scared you into getting the Honda dealer 50/50 stuff, and it may of not been necessary. I did a little research on this topic and it looks as if Ray H is smarter than me, at least when it comes to coolants.
I couldn't find a definitive answer, however it looks like from what I've read so far, that if you buy a OAT coolant that is phosphates and borates free, you would be OK if you flushed the system as Ray H outlined so well.
The Honda gurus recommend the Zerex OAT as that coolant is closest to Honda the formulation.
Again, I apologize. I just rather be safe then sorry. On the bright side, you should flush your sytem anyhow if it was mixed with the IAT type coolant. And give your sister a hug, she was probably just trying to do the right thing.
I couldn't find a definitive answer, however it looks like from what I've read so far, that if you buy a OAT coolant that is phosphates and borates free, you would be OK if you flushed the system as Ray H outlined so well.
The Honda gurus recommend the Zerex OAT as that coolant is closest to Honda the formulation.
Again, I apologize. I just rather be safe then sorry. On the bright side, you should flush your sytem anyhow if it was mixed with the IAT type coolant. And give your sister a hug, she was probably just trying to do the right thing.
I'm not any smarter than anyone else on this board. It's just that when I get interested in a topic, I suck up all the information about it I can like a leach. I suspect that when Honda first began filling their cars' coolant systems with OAT antifreeze/coolant solutions, American cars were still merrily pouring conventional Prestone-type antifreeze/coolants in theirs. And, American buying habits pretty much dictated reaching for the big yellow jugs. Hondas, of course, have used all-aluminum engines from just about day one and Honda did not want to chance corrosion returns because fluids that may not have been up to its tested standards were substituted for what Honda determined through testing was best for their setup. Ergo, the not-quite-scare-tactic-but-close "recommendation" to use only Honda antifreeze/coolant to keep your Honda all Honda... Things, they have changed. Wal*Mart's introduction of their own extended life fluid is apparently replacing their previous silicate-borate-phophate laced brew completely (at least in the three Wal*Mart stores in my area). Perhaps too soon to speculate, but fearless, wreckless, wild and crazy guy that I am, I don't see conventional Prestone and Prestone-type fluids being available much longer. They're simply obsolete now.
[ August 15, 2004, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
[ August 15, 2004, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Member zmeli in another thread Honda OEM Fluids stated that "Don't buy the pre-mixed Type-11 if you can. I have to go to the motorcycle shop to fin[d] the concentrate." The implication that he gave in two of his posts is that the motorcycle is the same low-silicate, etc. as the Honda auto coolant, but in a concentrated form. Check out the post for more details.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Hey Ray H, I forgot to ask you. What if there isn't an air release screw on the thrmostat? That's probably a stupid question, but again, I'm a little slow. Oh, and I think I might give that zerex stuff a try that 427Z06 mentioned and keep my honda 50/50 as emergency top off, no luck finding the honda concentrate beltway bandit mentioned at the motorcycle shops. Oh, and thanks to all of you who posted here to help me, you all probably saved me a lot of money down the road.
- Status
