97 Lumina Using Oil @ 67,000 Miles - What to Use?

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I would suspect a leak at that consumption rate. valve stem seals, rear main, lower intake. I just can't see the oil control rings wearing out that fast. if they diagnosed "ring wear" as the problem, they probably should have done a compression test, as excessive wear of the compression rings MIGHT indicate oil ring wear. ask them what was done. more info is needed.
 
I know you've asked for some very distinct recommendations ...but....

Errrr ....I'm wondering about that diagnosis. You said the dealer said rings ....but if it was rings you would have excessive blow-by.


There would be some "apparent" evidence of this. So far you haven't mentioned any. Since I don't know the PCV/vent system on this engine it is hard for me to determine what or where you would see it. Typically the fresh air vent line handles the excessive blow-by. If this showed excessive oil saturation and the PCV (do you really have a pcv and not a metered orfice?) is functional - then yes - you have excessive blow-by and the rings are the reason (again assuming that the PCV is functional).


I'm a little sceptical of the shoot from the hip assumption that this engine is shot (as in rings). Even with the short drives ...I feel the MAIN killer is never warming up ...which you avoided with the remote starter set up. Not the prefered manner ...but better than not warming up completely at all.

I would not place 100% faith in the dealership's take on this. Do you see evidence of oil residue in the throttle body? If not ...then I would have a hard time seeing this as a blow-by problem.


BTW- atf is a great combustion chamber cleaner if you truly have a center ported manifold vacuum source (like a true PCV). It's just gone out of vogue with the advent of injected engines that rarely have combustion chamber deposits before 100k ...hence most here would never have heard of it (unless they're over the age of 50).
 
Gary,

Thanks for the comments. I think you are talking a level above me.

RE: "If problem was rings, there would be some "apparent" evidence of this. So far you haven't mentioned any."

Does the lack of fuel in the oil in my UOA indicate the problem is other than the rings? or not necessarily?

E: "Since I don't know the PCV/vent system on this engine it is hard for me to determine what or where you would see it. Typically the fresh air vent line handles the excessive blow-by. If this showed excessive oil saturation and the PCV (do you really have a pcv and not a metered orfice?) is functional - then yes - you have excessive blow-by and the rings are the reason (again assuming that the PCV is functional)."

The "PCV valve" rattles when you shake it. Does that mean it is a true PCV rather than a metered orfice? It seems fairly clean although there was some oil in it, so I put a fresh one on at the last oil change. Dealer had told me it was checked and ok. Not sure what you are referring to as the fresh air vent line? Could you explain in a little more detail?


RE: "I'm a little sceptical of the shoot from the hip assumption that this engine is shot (as in rings)."

The did a compression test, so it wasn't just "shoot from the hip". Still, after that UOA, I have to wonder if their diagnosis is correct.

RE: "I would not place 100% faith in the dealership's take on this. Do you see evidence of oil residue in the throttle body? If not ...then I would have a hard time seeing this as a blow-by problem."

How would I check to see eveidence of oil residue in the throttle body. I took a flashlight and shined it all around and could see none...Is the check you are referring to inside or outside (ie.e does something have to be removed to check?

Also, the dealer did tell me there was a small leak (seapage) around..was either head gasket or intake gasket...but they said it was not the source of the consumption and they would not recommend spending the money to fix it on an engine with bad rings. Nothing is dripping on the ground. I dont smell any oil burning off on the engine block. There is no oily residue around the tip of the tail pipe as
I have seen on some burners, and there is no smoke coming from the car.


RE: "- atf is a great combustion chamber cleaner if you truly have a center ported manifold vacuum source (like a true PCV)."

I have read that, but I would be afraid to try it. I am giving the engine two doses (1 at a time) of Chevron Techron.

Thanks. Would appreciate any comments from you, Gary, or anyone else!

[ May 17, 2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: CJH ]
 
Gary,

Thanks for the comments. I think you are talking a level above me.

RE: "If problem was rings, there would be some "apparent" evidence of this. So far you haven't mentioned any."

Does the lack of fuel in the oil in my UOA indicate the problem is other than the rings? or not necessarily?

Well ..mainly I was referring to visible evidence. When you have blow - by ..excessive blow-by ..the PCV valve can not handle the volume of the vapor getting by the rings. A little naturally does ..but too much and the excessive vapors exit the crankcase in the only easily available outlet ...which is the fresh air inlet. In the case of a V6 it would be the hose on the opposite valve cover that used to go to the air cleaner housing (it may on yours). Anyway in the older carberated engines you would find an aircleaner full of oil since the excess vapor went "out the in hole" so to speak.

E: "Since I don't know the PCV/vent system on this engine it is hard for me to determine what or where you would see it. Typically the fresh air vent line handles the excessive blow-by. If this showed excessive oil saturation and the PCV (do you really have a pcv and not a metered orfice?) is functional - then yes - you have excessive blow-by and the rings are the reason (again assuming that the PCV is functional)."

The "PCV valve" rattles when you shake it. Does that mean it is a true PCV rather than a metered orfice? It seems fairly clean although there was some oil in it, so I put a fresh one on at the last oil change. Dealer had told me it was checked and ok. Not sure what you are referring to as the fresh air vent line? Could you explain in a little more detail?

This is a true PCV valve. Abandoned by some manufacturers since it is effectively a regulated manifold leak. To find the fresh air vent ..look for a "like" hose that doesn't have the PCV valve in it.


RE: "I'm a little sceptical of the shoot from the hip assumption that this engine is shot (as in rings)."

The did a compression test, so it wasn't just "shoot from the hip". Still, after that UOA, I have to wonder if their diagnosis is correct.

I wasn't referring to the dealer ..I was commenting on the "the engine's shot" comments here.

RE: "I would not place 100% faith in the dealership's take on this. Do you see evidence of oil residue in the throttle body? If not ...then I would have a hard time seeing this as a blow-by problem."

How would I check to see eveidence of oil residue in the throttle body. I took a flashlight and shined it all around and could see none...Is the check you are referring to inside or outside (ie.e does something have to be removed to check?

I just don't trust dealers too much on this type of stuff without a "second opinion". They have different motivations and many many pockets to fill (service manager, parts manager, parts counter person, service writer, owner, and last and least the wrench).

Remove (should be easy) the assembly that covers your throttle body. If you truly have excessive blow by it should be covering it. There's nothing to wash it down. If you see a dry throttle body ...you don't have excessive blow by.

Start at the air filter housing and work toward the engine (through the various hoses/ducts)

btw- excessive blow by would be defined as that which can not be effectively managed by the PCV system. Even excessive blow-by doesn't mean that an engine can not give good (reasonable) service. In the case of excessive blow-by some alternative blow-by management techniques need to be employed.

RE: "- atf is a great combustion chamber cleaner if you truly have a center ported manifold vacuum source (like a true PCV)."

I have read that, but I would be afraid to try it. I am giving the engine two doses (1 at a time) of Chevron Techron.

Thanks. Would appreciate any comments from you, Gary, or anyone else!
 
Just an update on the oil consumption problem on my 1997 Lumina.

Currently using Shell Rotella T 5W40 and consumption seems to have dropped off to about a quart every 1,700 miles or so. That compares to 1,050 miles per quart with Castrol GTX HM and 850 miles / quart with both dino 5W30 and 10W30.

I don't know if this improvement is due to the characteristics of the oil itself (viscosity, etc.) or if it is because the engine is being cleaned.

On a trip today, I stopped at a Flying J Truck Stop because they had gasoline for $1.33 and when I walked in, I saw Delvac 1 on the shelf in 1 gallon containers at $30.00 each. I bought 2 and am going to use them next oil change.

My wife (who knows nothing about oil but a lot about shopping) was with me and said...I see oil in the grocery ads for $1 / quart...is there something different about this for $7.50 / quart. She let it drop at that point (phew!).

So at this point, my plan is to do a UOA on the Rotella 5W40 at around 7,000 miles (currently at about 4,000 miles). Then clean with Rislone for 1,000 miles and then Auto Rx for 750 miles. Then drain and replace with the revered Delvac 1 and run it 7,000 miles followed by a UOA.
 
The dealership will use GM Top Engine Cleaner Part no #1050002 to decarbonize your motor. I ran this same stuff in my car (same motor - monte carlo 3.1L 127K miles) about a month ago (although I've been away for a week and was sick for another so I only racked up 250 miles in that time) and a TON of carbon burned out of my motor. It is now running noticeably smoother and so far on my first full tank of gas I am noticing greatly improved gas mileage.

I however would not recommend that you run this stuff too often, as it is extremely abrasive and will probably being to eat away and do more damage to the seals if you do it often enough. Also, you absolutely MUST change you oil and filter after running this treatment, it becomes extremely contaminated and needs to be replaced right away.

The cleaner is not added to your gas tank, but rather you suck it in through a vaccum source into the intake manifold. I used the brake booster vaccum connection, and slowly sucked in the can while I had my friend keep the car running (it was floored and was barely running). When the bottle was empty I had him release the gas and it stalled out right away. I reconnected everything, let it sit for 30 minutes (if you let it sit too long in a hot motor it will being to evaporate and gum up your spark plugs - I definately would not go over an hour; if you do it in a cold motor you can go over night, but its recommened you do it hot) and started it back up (very slow to turn over) and then revved it up and down from the 2k (it would not idle below 2k for a good 3 mintues while the stuff was burning off) to the 4k rev limiter. Once the idle returned to normal I took it out to an open road and went WOT to 90 mph 3 times to burn off any residual.

I would wait until your next oil change interval to try it, and if you are going to do an oil analysis, take the sample before you run this stuff. After that I would hold off on running it for a while.

Also, be warned that it will create a HUGE cloud of smoke as the carbon burns off. I fumigated my house and my entire neighborhood doing this. My neighbors were not happy. The smoke it produces stinks terribly as well. If you think this will be a problem, I would find a less populated place to do this.
 
quote:

Originally posted by mstrjon32:
The dealership will use GM Top Engine Cleaner Part no #1050002 to decarbonize your motor.

This was the very first thing that was done. Actually, consumption was even a quart in 500 miles or less before the GM top end cleaner. Then I started consumption tests with 5W30, 10W30 and found 1 quart / 850 miles which gradually improved to 1 quart / 1,700 miles while experiementing with different oils.

Thanks for the tip though!

[ June 30, 2003, 06:12 AM: Message edited by: CJH ]
 
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