97 Camry transmission whine

[SMB]

Hey all,

Sorry for the long post.

I have a 97 Toyota Camry with the 2.2 4 cylinder engine and automatic. It has 164K miles. I just got it about a month ago.

The car is perfect. It just needed some fluid flushes and it's good to go.

Once I got it, I took it to my mechanic so he can drain and refill the tranny and flush the differential since they are both separate.

I had some Pennzoil DEX-III which was used for the tranny D/R and I got 2 quarts of Valvoline DEX-VI to do the differential.

After the D/R, there has been a whine while in 1st gear but it will go away once the tranny shifts to 2nd. It was not doing that before. At first I thought this sound came from the tranny since it was drained and refilled with Pennzoil DEX-III that it got mixed with the old fluid in it and thus making that sound.

Just yesterday I drained and refilled the tranny again with PENNZOIL DEX-III. The 1st gear whine is still there.

The ATF before the drain and refill was just dark red. It wasn't burnt. The transmission shifts perfectly even before the 2 drains and refills. Of course it wasn’t making that whining sound.

For this car it requires DEX-II or DEX-III for the AT and differential.

Now I am thinking that the whine is coming from the differential.

So could the Valvoline DEX-VI be the culprit? Could it be coming from somewhere else? I changed the engine oil to MaxLife 5W-30 with a STP filter. (Highly doubt it though)


Have a nice day.

 

[Pablo]

I know I'll get heck for this, but I wouldn't but Dexron VI in the diff - it's too thin. At least a higher vis synthetic Dex III substitute. Amsoil ATD comes to mind with a vis of 7.5 cSt or maybe an MTL in the 9.X range, like Amsoil MTF.

 

[SMB]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
I know I'll get heck for this, but I wouldn't but Dexron VI in the diff - it's too thin. At least a higher vis synthetic Dex III substitute. Amsoil ATD comes to mind with a vis of 7.5 cSt or maybe an MTL in the 9.X range, like Amsoil MTF.


Thanks Pablo. What about AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid? The product guide for my car shows both ATF and the ATD.

Should I change out the DEX-VI asap?

 

[Pablo]

ATF is semi OK here, but really it's just too close to Dex VI for my liking. When GM did the Dex VI retro OK thing, there is no way the can be accountable for the final drive gear box in a 1997 Toyota.

No whine is a good whine.....

 

[SMB]

^ I indeed don't want any whining!

If DEX-VI didn't work well with the differential, I am going to stick with III for the differential and tranny.

I already drove 900 miles since DEX-VI was added, is it too late for the differential?

 

[Pablo]

Not too late, I should think.

 

[The Critic]

Dexron-VI is unlikely to be the problem. Dexron III is less shear stable than Dexron VI and could have a lower viscosity than Dexron-VI within several thousand miles.

A whine usually means that the fluid level is correct. Many automatic transmission dipsticks are difficult to read. My dad said the transmission was full, but it was actually 1.5 qt low.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Dexron-VI is unlikely to be the problem. Dexron III is less shear stable than Dexron VI and could have a lower viscosity than Dexron-VI within several thousand miles.

A whine usually means that the fluid level is correct. Many automatic transmission dipsticks are difficult to read. My dad said the transmission was full, but it was actually 1.5 qt low.


What Mike Wan (The Critic) says about fluid level makes a lot of sense. I assume it's been properly checked. (?)

And what Mike says is generally true about old conventional Dex III ATF, it absolutely does NOT apply to my recommendation and Mike either didn't fully read my post or he is incapable of understanding what "....a higher vis synthetic Dex III substitute....." means.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
And what Mike says is generally true about old conventional Dex III ATF, it absolutely does NOT apply to my recommendation and Mike either didn't fully read my post or he is incapable of understanding what "....a higher vis synthetic Dex III substitute....." means.

How is ATD a higher viscosity substitute?

 

[unDummy]

When compared to DexronIII, ATD is thicker!

I would definitely top off that diff immediately at another shop. If it was very low, then you risk some lube starvation issues and that will explain the whine, along with future diff failure.
Or, the whine was noticeable before and someone filled the diff with some gear oil to hide it in order to dump the vehicle.

I highly doubt that DexronVI is a culprit here.

I would use ATF+4. Its thicker the DexronVI, should help mask the whine, and doesn't shear as quickly as regular DexronIII's.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Pablo
And what Mike says is generally true about old conventional Dex III ATF, it absolutely does NOT apply to my recommendation and Mike either didn't fully read my post or he is incapable of understanding what "....a higher vis synthetic Dex III substitute....." means.

How is ATD a higher viscosity substitute?


It has a higher viscosity, but my main point, ATD is VERY shear stable relative to generic old Dex III (and generic DEX VI for that matter)

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: unDummy

Or, the whine was noticeable before and someone filled the diff with some gear oil to hide it in order to dump the vehicle.


:duhope!:

yiketers!

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Pablo
And what Mike says is generally true about old conventional Dex III ATF, it absolutely does NOT apply to my recommendation and Mike either didn't fully read my post or he is incapable of understanding what "....a higher vis synthetic Dex III substitute....." means.

How is ATD a higher viscosity substitute?


It has a higher viscosity, but my main point, ATD is VERY shear stable relative to generic old Dex III (and generic DEX VI for that matter)

The film thickness may not be greater than Dexron-VI though.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Pablo
And what Mike says is generally true about old conventional Dex III ATF, it absolutely does NOT apply to my recommendation and Mike either didn't fully read my post or he is incapable of understanding what "....a higher vis synthetic Dex III substitute....." means.

How is ATD a higher viscosity substitute?


It has a higher viscosity, but my main point, ATD is VERY shear stable relative to generic old Dex III (and generic DEX VI for that matter)


The film thickness may not be greater than Dexron-VI though.


It is greater. Given the lack of viscosity shear down, great friction stability, superior viscometric properties, total lack of viscosity index improvers and killer additive package to protect large vehicle transmissions, ATD would be fairly great in this application.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
It is greater. Given the lack of viscosity shear down, great friction stability, superior viscometric properties, total lack of viscosity index improvers and killer additive package to protect large vehicle transmissions, ATD would be fairly great in this application.

Film thickness is not always due to viscosity alone.

 

[SMB]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: unDummy

Or, the whine was noticeable before and someone filled the diff with some gear oil to hide it in order to dump the vehicle.


:duhope!:

yiketers!


I am sure the whine wasn't there before. Once I got the car, my mechanic replaced some parts. He has changed both accessory belts but that wasn't it. I'll let him check them tomorrow as well.

But if the previous owner added gear oil, how long can the diff last since it requires DEX-III?

The tranny oil level is right at HOT after driving 20-25 miles.

I'll let you know what happens tomorrow.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Dexron-VI is unlikely to be the problem. Dexron III is less shear stable than Dexron VI and could have a lower viscosity than Dexron-VI within several thousand miles.

A whine usually means that the fluid level is correct. Many automatic transmission dipsticks are difficult to read. My dad said the transmission was full, but it was actually 1.5 qt low.


Many dipsticks seem to go around a bend which will smear the fluid. I pull out the dipstick and compare the front and back to be the same, if not the I look at the side thats on the outside of any bend (and thus will not be smeared). And even then its not always obvious.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Pablo
It is greater. Given the lack of viscosity shear down, great friction stability, superior viscometric properties, total lack of viscosity index improvers and killer additive package to protect large vehicle transmissions, ATD would be fairly great in this application.

Film thickness is not always due to viscosity alone.


I didn't say it is.

 

[SMB]

Today I went ahead to my mechanic and he checked the fluid. It was filled to the correct level. He had some Mobil 1 ATF and so he drained and filled the diff with Mobil 1. I didn't pay a thing so what the [censored]. At least I know the diff fluid is at the correct level.

It turned out the [censored] alternator belt was making that sound. It was the cheapest NAPA belt. The mechanic reinstalled it again and the whine is gone.

Thank you all for your help.

 

[Pablo]

Haha that's great - you know the fixit rule - do the easy stuff first!!