94 Accord. Wheel bearing fixed now steering issue?

[antiqueshell]

I'm stating to think either the car cursed, or more likely I am being ripped by the shops I'm going to.

Recently I posted about a Honda dealer crossing threading all eight studs on the front wheels of my 94 Accord LX, well had that repaired and within 200 miles a frt wheel bearing suddenly fails, QUICKLY got outrageously noisy within just 30 miles. That shop flat out refused to acknowledge any fault and was attempting to charge me 230 bucks to repair, NO F'N WAY would I accept that price, when it is likely they caused the sudden failure.

So I take the car to another shop (my usual shop that I have used for a decade) the repair the right front wheel bearing, I immediately noticed that upon turning the steering wheel to the right, when car is at a stand still or going a couple of mphs, that there is a pronounced judder as (bump, bump, bump, sound) but it stops when you leave the steering wheel in place. I don't hear any groaning from the power steering pump, so I don't think it is that. I was thinking a bushing or something related to the parts worked on during the repair of the bearing.

This issue was definitely NOT present before it was taken in to this last shop.

Tegger are you out there?

 

[morris]

years ago my son had a honda with steering trouble. what happened was the PS shaft would let air IN. when the steering was used. if it sets the air drops out unless yours is worse than mine. it can be used as is. if it doesnt get bad fast you might just use it. my son used his for 3-4 years iam not sure you have trouble.. and YES its rare for air to go in, and not oil it go out.

 

[AandPDan]

I'd be curious about the CV joint. They might have damaged it replacing the bearing. If it can't rotate smoothly it will make noise when turning.

 

[NHGUY]

I dont trust shops with press-in bearings (imports dont use hub assemblies like old Citations,Celebrity,Cavalier....etc).There is a spec that must be met when pressing it together (its a rope wrapped around the lug studs rotating torque test).Poor design not meant for easy replacement.The only thing worse is the 1978-1989 Chrysler "cartridge" design.

 

[antiqueshell]

Added detail....

Also to be as specific as possible if you leave the steering wheel turned in the direction you point it to the noise and feel goes completely away. it is only while turning the wheel at slow speeds or at a complete stop.

The thing is it will ONLY do it while turning the wheel quickly, if you turn it slowly you will not notice the sound and feel.

I did think about the CV joint.


I doubt it is the power steering shaft issue because this IMMEDIATELY started happening following their repair.

The only things they worked on were the wheel bearing and related parts required to access it.

The thing that really [censored] me off is that there is NO way the tech could have missed this if they took it for a short test drive.

 

[yonyon]

Just for fun:

Guess #1: Mechanic removed the knuckle from the vehicle to make pressing of the bearing simple and easy. In the process he damaged the lower ball joint (damage to the upper wouldn't cause these symptoms) resulting in hard steering. The power steering overcomes this hardness, but at low RPMs the pump just isn't cutting it. I'm also going to speculate even further that the mechanic did notice the symptom and discount it as air in the power steering lines which would work itself out eventually or chose to assume this was a pre-existing condition.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Recently I posted about a Honda dealer crossing threading all eight studs on the front wheels of my 94 Accord LX, well had that repaired and within 200 miles a frt wheel bearing suddenly fails, QUICKLY got outrageously noisy within just 30 miles.

This model has the hub design where the wheel bearing must be disassembled to replace the rotor and studs, so it is possible that the bearing was damaged by them. But, in this case, whether it definitely was damaged by them or not, I cannot say.

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
upon turning the steering wheel to the right, when car is at a stand still or going a couple of mphs, that there is a pronounced judder as (bump, bump, bump, sound) but it stops when you leave the steering wheel in place.

Have you checked the fluid level in the reservoir?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Tegger

Recently I posted about a Honda dealer crossing threading all eight studs on the front wheels of my 94 Accord LX, well had that repaired and within 200 miles a frt wheel bearing suddenly fails, QUICKLY got outrageously noisy within just 30 miles.

This model has the hub design where the wheel bearing must be disassembled to replace the rotor and studs, so it is possible that the bearing was damaged by them. But, in this case, whether it definitely was damaged by them or not, I cannot say.

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
upon turning the steering wheel to the right, when car is at a stand still or going a couple of mphs, that there is a pronounced judder as (bump, bump, bump, sound) but it stops when you leave the steering wheel in place.

Quote:

Have you checked the fluid level in the reservoir?



Fluid appears to be fine.

No change in level no bubbles.

More specifics....

Steering effort does not feel harder (requiring more force) when turning in the problem direction, right, than when turning the wheel left, the only difference is the bumping and accompling noise encountered.

I also was thinking bushing or ball joint, something similar. I don't THINK it is the power steering rack.

Geeze what else can these keystone cops goof up.

Unfortunately the shop is closed because the owners went on a vacation over the labor day holiday. so I can't get it checked out for another week.


This car is NOT super difficult to fix, from what I hear, the issue is sloppy work, carelessness, or incompetence. I'm paying these folks the average going rate or a bit more in the case of the most recent work. NOT HAPPY!

 

[yonyon]

Tegger:
You know these Honda's a lot better that I do. Try to think of the sort of things that real dime-store mechanics could do to this car. I work with this sort all day and they make me look competent so I can tell you they definitely do exist. With that in mind, what could they have done to cause this problem?

 

[fdcg27]

If the car is so easy to fix, why don't you just fix it yourself?
Things do break on 18 YO cars.
It isn't necessarily the fault of the shop or the tech.
To own an old car, you have to do your own work for it to make any economic sense to keep.
If you can't, sell it to someone who can and buy something newer.
I have old cars because I can fix them.
This makes them really cheap to own and use.
If I couldn't, it would be cheaper to have newer ones.

 

[yonyon]

Calm down, Francis!

Just because some of us are okay with getting smashed and crushed and electrocuted and cut and ripped and shot and burned at the stake and all doesn't mean everyone else is okay with experiencing that as part of a simple chore such as fixing a car. For those people it makes sense to pay a mechanic. If Antiqueshell would rather pay someone else (who, presumably, is cool with that stuff) to fix his car doesn't make him stupid.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
If the car is so easy to fix, why don't you just fix it yourself?
Things do break on 18 YO cars.
It isn't necessarily the fault of the shop or the tech.
To own an old car, you have to do your own work for it to make any economic sense to keep.
If you can't, sell it to someone who can and buy something newer.
I have old cars because I can fix them.
This makes them really cheap to own and use.
If I couldn't, it would be cheaper to have newer ones.


I think you well know that I'm saying that with respect to mechanics in general, this model is probably pretty straight forward to repair if you work on cars for a living ,as a professional.

Why don't I repair the car myself? Because I don't have the facilities or the large number of tools to do so, nor do I have the experience. I DO try and do basic repairs like plugs, wires, oil, ect. But for larger jobs it goes to the shop.

You know these folks I am paying are NOT back yard mechanics, they are very well paid, supposedly trained and certified as well. I shouldn't have to play back up to them, they need to do their job properly, not break other things in the process and fail to inform the customer.


I have to chuckle at the endless excuse that...the car is "old" titled in Jan 95, makes it 17 years old. It has only 129k on it, has been well maintained and treated gently. There are PLENTY of Honda Accord that age and older with many more miles on them that don't have failed wheel bearings, after a stud repair (those all damaged by gross negligence by the "dealer" ) nor a sudden steering feedback issue after a wheel bearing repair. That should have been caught on the final test drive before they returned it to me, after all it didn't drive into the shop that way. They knew that.

I think the problem is sloppy work, negligence, and or general incompetence. Now... what am I paying these people for anyhow? LOL

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Now... what am I paying these people for anyhow? LOL

I think you answered your own question before you asked it:
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

Why don't I repair the car myself? Because I don't have the facilities or the large number of tools to do so, nor do I have the experience.

The thing is, you need to either find someone who cares about the quality of work they do, or at least understands that you care. If you just drop your car off at the first garage you see or whichever one gives you the lowest price you may as well just burn the money you plan to pay them, then do the job yourself. It's more convenient that way.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: yonyon

The thing is, you need to either find someone who cares about the quality of work they do, or at least understands that you care. If you just drop your car off at the first garage you see or whichever one gives you the lowest price you may as well just burn the money you plan to pay them, then do the job yourself. It's more convenient that way.


The main shop I use ( have been going there for about 10 years now) has generally done a decent job, but I have to say that over the past couple of years it seems like the quality of work has slipped.


I do NOT live most of the year in my main home listed but in the upstate of South Carolina, I can tell you it is VERY.....VEEEEERRY difficult to find shops that are competent, much less honest. There are very few, and until recently this place did decent if not excellent work, remember I just mentioned that the Honda dealer here completely destroyed EIGHT studs and lugs on BOTH front wheels doing a simple tire rotation.

Finding honest, competent shops is VERY difficult today, and exceedingly so where I spend most of my time residing at.

It is no wonder at all why the automotive repair business has such a horrible reputation overall, my own personal experience agrees completely.


BTW...I have worked in the past many years doing detailing and install work at various car dealers, and while things were not great a couple of decades ago, the general quality and integrity of shops in general has PLUMMETED over that time frame.

 

[Roadkingnc]

If the tech whacked the studs with a bfh to remove them bearing damage is a very real possibility

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

BTW...I have worked in the past many years doing detailing and install work at various car dealers, and while things were not great a couple of decades ago, the general quality and integrity of shops in general has PLUMMETED over that time frame.


It is true. Most people don't want to know what's being done to their car let alone why or how. They want fast and cheap. How many people do you know who would have any way of knowing whether or not repairs were done with quality in mind? Businesses have to meet the demands of their customers or they won't have any customers so most are pushing for faster cheaper work. Workmanship that would have been considered mediocre just a few years ago is now considered a luxury.

If you want a mechanic to work on your car and treat it as well as he might work on his own you need a specialist. Decent quality work is a specialty in its own right these days.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: yonyon
Tegger:
You know these Honda's a lot better that I do. Try to think of the sort of things that real dime-store mechanics could do to this car.

The "bumping" is symptom I've never encountered unless a CV joint was bad. Something like this is difficult to try and diagnose from a distance, since I can't actually see, hear, and feel what's happening.

If the fluid level is OK, and the "bumping" happened all of a sudden, there may be a connection between the wheel bearing (or the outer CV joint) and the "bumping".

Here's what I'd do, to start:
1) Get a helper. Have the helper drive the car at a very slow walking pace, and turn the wheel slowly as he drives. You are outside the vehicle, walking next to the wheel to be inspected, trying to determine if the bumping is accompanied by a noise outside; and if so, whether or not that noise is synchronized with wheel rotation. Put a chalk line on each tire as a reference point. If the bump happens at a specific point during wheel rotation, the bearing or CV joint is a definite suspect.
2) Raise the front end off the ground so the wheels are off the ground (use jack stands!). Start the engine, then turn the wheel slowly from lock to lock. Does the steering still bump? If not, then even more evidence against the bearing/CV joint.
3) Turn the engine off. Remove the road wheels, the brake calipers, and the brake pads from the hub. Put the transmission in Neutral. Spin each hub/rotor by hand. Does the hub spin smoothly, or is there obvious roughness or grinding? Is there play in the bearing?

 

[fdcg27]

I have a Honda indie I take work to I don't care to do, like the clutch in our '99 Accord, or the timing belt.
I've done both in the past on our various Hondas, but I'm older, lazier and more pressed for time these days.
The guy does great work, and can tell you exactly what's going to break and when on Honda and Acura cars of many years.
This guy runs a one man shop, so you may need to schedule work well in advance and he isn't at all cheap.
You get what you pay for.
Most dealers aren't going to put a high dollar tech on a tire rotation, for example.
Since this is something easily done in your driveway, I'm not sure why you'd pay to have it done.
Also, if you DIY the job, you'll be sure not to screw it up.
The high cost of good service, along with the mediocre results of cheaper service have kept me in the DIY mode.
I'll pay for work that's really involved, since the financial necessity of DIY for eveything has long since past.
I'll continue to DIY the simple stuff, since this allows me to avoid an unecessary outlay and I know that I'll do the work with due care.
Plus, I enjoy doing a little wrenching now and then.
To the OP, yes, you have a good car of a good generation.
I was driving or same gen '97 LX today, and I was impressed with how well the thing still runs and drives after fifteen years and 205K.
Even the never serviced AC still blows cold.