71 SS Chevelle 454

Pennzoil motor oil
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Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
9.0 to 1 is low compression with a hot cam.
Your cranking compression is likely less than stock .

If it dos not run on anybody's 10-30 with those roller rockers, something is wrong with the build.
Depending on oil temperature/heat, you may need to go up to an X-40.


No doubt but sounds like you are forgetting the flat tappet cam, roller rockers have very little effect on the cam lobe/lifter relationship...


EXACTLY! If this engine still has a solid lifter cam, it needs extra ZDDP, and the recommendations for Valvoline VR-1, Amsoil Dominater, or a HDEO are good suggestions.
 
Oops- I saw "roller" and my brain clicked over to "roller cam." With an old-skool bumpstick & flat tappets I agree that elevated ZDDP is the way to go...
 
I dont think you could go wrong with Valvoline VR1 although you may have to order it by the case to get it in anything other than Straight 50 or 20W50 off the shelf. I ran it for years in Solid Cam Big Blocks without issue and it still has the ZDDP you need.

Last solid cam I ran was 0.637/637 310/320(Adv) 270/280(0.050) on 108 Centers in at 104 so it wasnt a mild cam. As a matter of fact it was enough cam to get away with running a 12:1 476" BBC with mostly 93 Octane (A dash of race fuel more for lead than than octane) on the occasional street cruise. I never had any camshaft issues.
 
If your builder recommends straight 30W conventional, Summit Racing's house brand (made by Spectro) has 1800ppm zinc. I run their 10W-40 in my 500hp 400 SBC even though it's a roller cam.

ZDDP is kinda like water.
There is a specific amount you can get by on.
There is a higher amount that is beneficial.
There is an even higher amount that will hurt you.
I stay in the middle.
 
Originally Posted By: Vernt19

The builder esimated a 9:1 compression with approx. 400 hp. and reccomended using Pennzoil 30W oil only.


For the first 20 minutes sure; after that, switch to 20W-50 Valvoline.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
9.0 to 1 is low compression with a hot cam.
Your cranking compression is likely less than stock .

If it dos not run on anybody's 10-30 with those roller rockers, something is wrong with the build.
Depending on oil temperature/heat, you may need to go up to an X-40.


Yeah, you are probably right if this is the traditional "hot cam" old school bumpstick with heaps of overlap and lazy lobes.

The last two cam swaps I was involved in (both Ford Windsor engines but the same principles apply.... One was my own 302) had custom cams with quick ramps and negative overlap. I don't know if they'd be "hot" cams, but definitely gross deviations from stock with over .550 lift and ~230-240 @ 0.050 duration specs. Not sure how that compares to a "stage 3" however.


yeah as low lift flow increases with better head design the overlap actually kills off torque. im all for wide separation unless i got a stock pair of double humps with 12-1. but then all you get is an unstreetable 400hp
frown.gif


there is a reason cars are making more power than ever now. tech has improved by leaps and bounds since the 60s

sounds like your 302 would love a bit of spray!!
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Vernt19

The builder esimated a 9:1 compression with approx. 400 hp. and reccomended using Pennzoil 30W oil only.


For the first 20 minutes sure; after that, switch to 20W-50 Valvoline.


running valvoline 20/50 in a low compression, low rpm engine, with stock clearances is completely wrong.
if were to change anything i might just go with vr1 10/30 or if i planned on raggin it alot maybe t6 5w40. but it wont take any kind of sustained rpms anyway so a thicker oil is not necessary
 
Originally Posted By: Lost1
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
9.0 to 1 is low compression with a hot cam.
Your cranking compression is likely less than stock .

If it dos not run on anybody's 10-30 with those roller rockers, something is wrong with the build.
Depending on oil temperature/heat, you may need to go up to an X-40.

+1
This isn't a highly stressed engine. The SS454 is a tank of a motor, and less than 1 hp per cu in is easy street for it. Roller rockers don't need astronomical levels of ZDDP; any off the shelf PCMO would be sufficient, but if it was mine I'd baby it with 20W-50 VR1.

Where's the pics?!
smile.gif



whether it roller rockers or not does not change the zinc needs. its the cam you need to worry about. if its roller or flat tappet, the lift and spring pressure are whats important.
a 550 lift solid flat tappet will need ALOT of zinc on break-in and then a good amount for ever. a 450 lift hydraulic flat tappet needs a good amount (like hdeo) on break-in and then can taper off. a hydraulic roller needs none, but a 600+ lift solid roller kinda needs 1200 PPM just because the spring pressures get crazy over the nose

vr1 is a great oil but with this engine having stock clearances and low oil temps a 20/50 would do more harm than good. vr1 10/30 would be my pick if not hdeo 10/30
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: Lost1
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
9.0 to 1 is low compression with a hot cam.
Your cranking compression is likely less than stock .

If it dos not run on anybody's 10-30 with those roller rockers, something is wrong with the build.
Depending on oil temperature/heat, you may need to go up to an X-40.

+1
This isn't a highly stressed engine. The SS454 is a tank of a motor, and less than 1 hp per cu in is easy street for it. Roller rockers don't need astronomical levels of ZDDP; any off the shelf PCMO would be sufficient, but if it was mine I'd baby it with 20W-50 VR1.

Where's the pics?!
smile.gif



whether it roller rockers or not does not change the zinc needs. its the cam you need to worry about. if its roller or flat tappet, the lift and spring pressure are whats important.
a 550 lift solid flat tappet will need ALOT of zinc on break-in and then a good amount for ever. a 450 lift hydraulic flat tappet needs a good amount (like hdeo) on break-in and then can taper off. a hydraulic roller needs none, but a 600+ lift solid roller kinda needs 1200 PPM just because the spring pressures get crazy over the nose

vr1 is a great oil but with this engine having stock clearances and low oil temps a 20/50 would do more harm than good. vr1 10/30 would be my pick if not hdeo 10/30

Yeah, I know. If you look a few posts down from the one you quoted you'll see where I said I misread the original post & thought he was talking about a roller cam.
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover

running valvoline 20/50 in a low compression, low rpm engine, with stock clearances is completely wrong.


So you're saying 20W-50 is only for high RPM running engines with high compression and wide clearances?
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: electrolover

running valvoline 20/50 in a low compression, low rpm engine, with stock clearances is completely wrong.


So you're saying 20W-50 is only for high RPM running engines with high compression and wide clearances?


i dont think the compression makes that much difference but you dont need 20/50 in a tight engine, it wont flow properly. and the engine is not going to be making that much oil heat so there is no need. in this case it would do more harm than good.


if you wont to throw 20/50 in your stock daily driver thats fine, but dont tell someone else to do things that will harm their engine. thats just wrong!! it wont move threw the tight clearances well at all, the pump will go into by pass, and the lack of oil flow will spin a rod bearing. go tear your own [censored] up and keep the ignorant advise to your self
 
look i know that sounds harsh. and its not meant to be nice at all. im sorry guys but i just cant bite my tongue when someone is trying to get a person to blow up a brand new engine. if the mods feel i need to be banned for my comments i would not be surprised or angry.

to the OP: run any oil choice by your engine builder before using it!!
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover
look i know that sounds harsh. and its not meant to be nice at all. im sorry guys but i just cant bite my tongue when someone is trying to get a person to blow up a brand new engine. if the mods feel i need to be banned for my comments i would not be surprised or angry.

to the OP: run any oil choice by your engine builder before using it!!
I have owned and built enough big block Chevy engines to say you really have no idea of what you are posting. Using the proper viscosity oil with reguards to the starting temps 20w-50 will be fine as will be 15w40 or straight 30. I would ban you only for posting B.S. info "no disrespect intended just fact" Remember all, let your oil warm up before WOT no matter the viscosity or basestock types.I can't believe all the internet experts. I have had several 7,500 to 8,000 RPM big block Chev engines in my boats running 15w40 " and 20w-50 that upon teardown for inspection looked pretty good well except the valve train. The spring pressure kills everything. to the OP, You don't need syn oil in the engine because on the street you can't hold WOT long enough. Unless you are towing max loads, but I doubt your car is a tow vehicle
grin2.gif
 
A tidbit for all the "experts" to ponder,,,, the tightest, most precise part in an engine " we are talking a quality mfg" is the hydraulic lifter. Look it up. Then explain to me about 20w-50 oil not moving through the tight clearances. Remember you want oil thick enough to protect you engine under the harshest operating conditions you will encounter yet not too thick to cost you power or mpgs.
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: electrolover
look i know that sounds harsh. and its not meant to be nice at all. im sorry guys but i just cant bite my tongue when someone is trying to get a person to blow up a brand new engine. if the mods feel i need to be banned for my comments i would not be surprised or angry.

to the OP: run any oil choice by your engine builder before using it!!
I have owned and built enough big block Chevy engines to say you really have no idea of what you are posting. Using the proper viscosity oil with reguards to the starting temps 20w-50 will be fine as will be 15w40 or straight 30. I would ban you only for posting B.S. info "no disrespect intended just fact" Remember all, let your oil warm up before WOT no matter the viscosity or basestock types.I can't believe all the internet experts. I have had several 7,500 to 8,000 RPM big block Chev engines in my boats running 15w40 " and 20w-50 that upon teardown for inspection looked pretty good well except the valve train. The spring pressure kills everything. to the OP, You don't need syn oil in the engine because on the street you can't hold WOT long enough. Unless you are towing max loads, but I doubt your car is a tow vehicle
grin2.gif



exactly 75-8000 rpms. im talking about a 5k redline engine here. what was the rod bearing clearance on your boat motors?

im done with this thread, if you guys want to run 20/50 in a stock bottom end go for it. go ahead and rap it up 5k too. with a mild performance engine you want the thickest oil possible right?
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
A tidbit for all the "experts" to ponder,,,, the tightest, most precise part in an engine " we are talking a quality mfg" is the hydraulic lifter. Look it up. Then explain to me about 20w-50 oil not moving through the tight clearances. Remember you want oil thick enough to protect you engine under the harshest operating conditions you will encounter yet not too thick to cost you power or mpgs.


just one more thing

lifters are tight to slow oil from blowing by the plunger. at low rpms they bleed off and high rpms they pump up. its nothing like a rod bearing and crankshaft which is depending constant oil flow


look i dont own any speed boats. to be honest i always thought the hobby was silly. but i have been building and drag racing engines since i was 16. and i have seen plenty of dumb kids with a mustang daddy bought blow the motor running 20/50 and ragging the [censored] out of it. they think a thicker oil will protect better, even tho the car is completely stock. this is the same type example, a stock engine with a mild cam does not need 20/50. if it was better dont you think his engine builder would have rec'd it instead of 30w?
 
I have a raging big block Chevy in my go-fast boat with a blower and all. It has over 850 hp at the crank.

Number one is I run Amsoil Dominator 15w-50 in it. About 800 hours on the unit. But when it was brand new we ran only 0w30 SSO for ages! Never missed a beat, turns 7 grand easy.

A stocker 454 from a 71 is going to be classic American Iron, tons of clearance and likes a 40w or better in most hot climates.

If it was expertly built the builder will recommend something, and it likely won't need as heavy an oil due to careful blueprinting. I don't know what the OP paid for...
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: electrolover
look i know that sounds harsh. and its not meant to be nice at all. im sorry guys but i just cant bite my tongue when someone is trying to get a person to blow up a brand new engine. if the mods feel i need to be banned for my comments i would not be surprised or angry.

to the OP: run any oil choice by your engine builder before using it!!
I have owned and built enough big block Chevy engines to say you really have no idea of what you are posting. Using the proper viscosity oil with reguards to the starting temps 20w-50 will be fine as will be 15w40 or straight 30. I would ban you only for posting B.S. info "no disrespect intended just fact" Remember all, let your oil warm up before WOT no matter the viscosity or basestock types.I can't believe all the internet experts. I have had several 7,500 to 8,000 RPM big block Chev engines in my boats running 15w40 " and 20w-50 that upon teardown for inspection looked pretty good well except the valve train. The spring pressure kills everything. to the OP, You don't need syn oil in the engine because on the street you can't hold WOT long enough. Unless you are towing max loads, but I doubt your car is a tow vehicle
grin2.gif



exactly 75-8000 rpms. im talking about a 5k redline engine here. what was the rod bearing clearance on your boat motors?

im done with this thread, if you guys want to run 20/50 in a stock bottom end go for it. go ahead and rap it up 5k too. with a mild performance engine you want the thickest oil possible right?
My engines are built with factory clearances on the rods and crank. The engine will run on almost any viscostiy oil depending upon startup and operating temps with ease BBC Chevys do good with xw 40 and 50 oils.
 
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