60 Min.TV - Chinese Elec. Cars

[doitmyself]

Anyone else watch the 60 Minutes TV segment last Sunday on the new Chinese electric car manufacturing effort. Fascinating, but it really shows a different mfg. process than what many of us profile (grungy, cheap hand labor).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/electric-cars-chinas-drive-to-dominate-the-industry-60-minutes/ ...The 60 Minutes interviewee warns (last 2 minutes) that the U.S. needs to be cautious of not allowing ourselves to be caught sleeping, or China will overtake this particular market segment.

 

[y_p_w]

Depends on what's being manufactured. China has a lot of people and can do cheap, labor-intensive manufacturing as well as modern automated manufacturing. At least with electronics, the key to China's manufacturing prowess is the Taiwanese companies that set up shop there and which are making the majority of the profits. They tap into China's labor.

I remember seeing some report on the plastics manufacturing industry. An American plastics company owner went on a visit to China and got to see what they were doing. He said the automated machinery they had was considerably newer and more advanced than what he had at his factory.

 

[Cujet]

Did not see the segment. However Nio is making some impressive stuff and has set a number of world records with their elec Powertrain in race cars.

As much as I enjoy driving Tesla's finest cars, I recognize they too are shy of today's best technology.

Such is life in the fast moving electric car world.

There is no reason Chinese cars can't compete. However, I strongly suspect we've learned many lessons they have not. So far, the Chinese offerings fall short in some ways. Some rentals I've had were already rusting, for example. Might expect this from a 1970's Chrysler made from recycled steel. But not today.

Furthermore, I'm not all thrilled by the very real limitations of a 200 mile range. Maybe I grew up during a time when automotive travel meant real travel. Not the next town over and no farther

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by doitmyself
Fascinating, but it really shows a different mfg. process than what many of us profile (grungy, cheap hand labor).


There is a lot of very high tech manufacturing in China with very modern factories and processes.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Did not see the segment. However Nio is making some impressive stuff and has set a number of world records with their elec Powertrain in race cars.

As much as I enjoy driving Tesla's finest cars, I recognize they too are shy of today's best technology.

Such is life in the fast moving electric car world.

There is no reason Chinese cars can't compete. However, I strongly suspect we've learned many lessons they have not. So far, the Chinese offerings fall short in some ways. Some rentals I've had were already rusting, for example. Might expect this from a 1970's Chrysler made from recycled steel. But not today.

Furthermore, I'm not all thrilled by the very real limitations of a 200 mile range. Maybe I grew up during a time when automotive travel meant real travel. Not the next town over and no farther

I've said it before and I will say it again.....99% of trips is EASILY within a 200 mile range. Electric cars don't need to replace that last 1% to be successful.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Fascinating, but it really shows a different mfg. process than what many of us profile (grungy, cheap hand labor).


There is a lot of very high tech manufacturing in China with very modern factories and processes.

and their infrastructure is in very good condition. Not to mention they are not stuck with the 40% of the population that doesn't want to work like we are.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Fascinating, but it really shows a different mfg. process than what many of us profile (grungy, cheap hand labor).


There is a lot of very high tech manufacturing in China with very modern factories and processes.

and their infrastructure is in very good condition. Not to mention they are not stuck with the 40% of the population that doesn't want to work like we are.



Yes-but "doesn't want to work" paints with a broad brush-(education here)


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ng-and-no-its-not-video-games-2018-02-22

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Fascinating, but it really shows a different mfg. process than what many of us profile (grungy, cheap hand labor).


There is a lot of very high tech manufacturing in China with very modern factories and processes.


Chinese do trade labor for equipment every day even on such things as iPhone assembly, it's just the labor rate is so low that it looks to be a smaller amount than it actually is.

Any company that says it has minimal Chinese labor hours in the production cost of a product usually lists labor in dollars which I a good way to hide the actual assembly hours involved and that number usually omits R&D labor.

Good way of hiding the truth in plain sight behind a $1.xx daily pay rate by listing labor in dollars instead of hours (which may not even be known)

 

[JC1]

I saw the segment last night. The Chinese gov't is giving heavy incentives to Electric Vehicles. The big three will probably be caught sleeping. In order for them to sell in China they need to have 10% of all Sales in China be Electric.

Will we see cheap Chinese Electric cars in North America? Only time will tell.

 

[walterjay]

I saw the show last night. Their development is explosive. In 20 years China will have surpassed the US as an economic power. They keep their eye on the ball and are strongly focused on getting what they want. Unlike us where the goals are highly politicized and change every few years with different administrations. In the end they are still a communist nation and they have succeeded in the implementation of a form of capitalism that serves the government and their wishes.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by JC1
I saw the segment last night. The Chinese gov't is giving heavy incentives to Electric Vehicles. The big three will probably be caught sleeping. In order for them to sell in China they need to have 10% of all Sales in China be Electric.

Will we see cheap Chinese Electric cars in North America? Only time will tell.



GAC motors will be selling (gasoline) cars/SUVs in the U.S. in the next 24 to 36 months.......IMHO.

 

[WagonWheel]

Didn't see it but IMO the battle is over and China has, for all intents & purposes, won. They are *heavily* investing in BEVs and don't have the legacy "baggage" that traditional ICE-focused countries (namely US, Japan and Germany) have to deal with. The dilemma that these countries face, invest too soon and go broke cannibalizing your existing ICE sales vs. investing too late and miss the train, doesn't manifest for China. Labor unions, political pressure from EV mandates - nope not a problem. Nio, Byton, CATL, are not household names yet.

Don't fall for the "China manufacturing is sub par" group think. Sure there is cheap / low quality stuff coming out of China, and a lot of it, but this is by choice. About 15 or so years ago the company I worked for at the time opened a manufacturing facility for our industrial communication equipment in China to complement our EU factory. Sure, it took a lot of effort to work out the process but the output qualify of our China operations eventually surpassed our EU operations. Having personally been to manufacturing facilities in China, I can tell you what you get out is what you put into it.

 

[Cujet]

We don't have the charging infrastructure.

Chinese products can be phenomenal quality.

EV's will suffice for 90% of trips. Not 99%.

Furthermore EV's may not save any energy at all when compared to modern hybrids.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Fascinating, but it really shows a different mfg. process than what many of us profile (grungy, cheap hand labor).


There is a lot of very high tech manufacturing in China with very modern factories and processes.

and their infrastructure is in very good condition. Not to mention they are not stuck with the 40% of the population that doesn't want to work like we are.



Yes-but "doesn't want to work" paints with a broad brush-(education here)


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ng-and-no-its-not-video-games-2018-02-22


yet plenty of retail and fast food jobs go un-filled. I realize they are the bottom of the barrel but you know....a job is better than NO job....and how else can you move up if you don't start.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by Cujet
We don't have the charging infrastructure.

Chinese products can be phenomenal quality.

EV's will suffice for 90% of trips. Not 99%.

Furthermore EV's may not save any energy at all when compared to modern hybrids.

no....it's more like 97%. There are studies on this and it is in the high 90's. Majority of trips are back and forth to work and the store....

 

[PimTac]

China is in the enviable position of being able to leapfrog everyone else in many sectors.

 

[expat]

What a turn around! A few years ago I was roasted on BITOG for suggesting that China could make anything of good quality.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by expat
What a turn around! A few years ago I was roasted on BITOG for suggesting that China could make anything of good quality.

There's still a lot of junk made in China. The question is usually about what kind of quality is the buyer willing to pay for.

 

[das_peikko]

I watched your 60 Minutes video and then watched this:

 

[CourierDriver]

When electric cars finally catch on here, the days of oil changes might be slowing down until all the piston driven cars are gone...imho...no more smoking cars, or oil drips in parking lots,,, what will we do for fun at Walmart then...??lol