5w20's for fuel diluters

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Given that most full synthetic 5w20's have a lower VI and often a lower volatility, do you think they are a better alternative than your 0w20 full synthetic? Other factors though include the type of 0w20, for example M1 EP 0w20 is majority PAO. Mobil 1 5w20 has a VII of only 160, likely little VII's. I've seen several UOA's where the 5w20's held their viscosity better than the 0w20's, but again this could be brand specific. You'd also have to really compare the base oil blend to know whether one oil has more VII's than another as some base oils inherently have a natural higher VI. We have been seeing quite a few UOA's with high fuel dilution, which we know impacts the oils ability to maintain viscosity and wear protection. My commute to work now is 3 miles on the way there, and 1.8 on the way home. It's pretty brutal. I may actually sample the M1 5w20 on my next change, which will likely be in late spring when I install the Fumoto. There won't be many miles on the oil however.
 
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It has been suggested that the 0w oils may have a better base than the 5w , though that could be nitpicking. The difference between the two is negligible from my perspective. I am looking at the M1 oils for my next change. The EP and AFE are my initial choices. Since I only drive about 5k a year I am leaning towards the AFE.
 
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I remember when Mobil 1 5W-20 came out. I wasn't sure exactly what the point was since 0W-20 should be good for any application that uses 5W-20. I guess it was for those who were worried about conventional 5W-20 being an issue. There were some sludging issues where apparently using something like Mobil 1 or equivalent were far more resistant to sludge.
 

JAG

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Assuming a climate that's not crazy cold, I probably would use 5W-20 instead of 0W-20. But given that some fuel diluting engines drop the viscosity grade down one or sometimes even two notches, I think using an xW-30 or in extreme cases, xW-40, is more appropriate than going to 5W-20 from 0W-20.
 

Patman

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Originally Posted by JAG
Assuming a climate that's not crazy cold, I probably would use 5W-20 instead of 0W-20.
Even when left outside on a -22C night, my Honda still fired up decently with 5w20 (and a 7 year old battery!) and that's about the coldest we're going to see in my area (and it's rare to get that cold, it's not often that it gets below -20C) So I haven't seen any negatives switching from 0w20, which was the viscosity I used exclusively from 2011 (when I got the car) to 2018.
 
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The Honda 1.5T's aren't instantly imploding with their serious fuel dilution even when the engines are raising the oil level in the crankcase. Although this isn't advisable it's proof that it's not a panic situation if just a little fuel dilution happens when these are pouring much more fuel into the oil and surviving. I'm sure OE's allow some fuel dilution to happen so if they call for 20wt they are well aware it could slip from that with fuel over a normal OCI. No need to fear. But you can run a UOA and find out if you should shorten your OCI or if it's ok the way it is. (Don't use Blackstone for this)
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
The Honda 1.5T's aren't instantly imploding with their serious fuel dilution even when the engines are raising the oil level in the crankcase. Although this isn't advisable it's proof that it's not a panic situation if just a little fuel dilution happens when these are pouring much more fuel into the oil and surviving. I'm sure OE's allow some fuel dilution to happen so if they call for 20wt they are well aware it could slip from that with fuel over a normal OCI. No need to fear. But you can run a UOA and find out if you should shorten your OCI or if it's ok the way it is. (Don't use Blackstone for this)
This^ On Bitog, all GDi but especially the Honda 1.5T have been raked over the coals concerning this issue when failed engines are few and UOA hardly show wear number concerns with XW-20 + some dilution.
 
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buster

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Good points from everyone. I guess even with the fuel diluting engines, such as the Honda 1.5T, which seems to be among the worst, they don't fall below the 0w20 grade viscosity limit. Last winter was the first time I ever experienced the oil level going above the top fill hole on the dipstick, and that was due to short trip, cold weather driving. I'm going to buy an oil extractor and sample the M1 5w20 come spring just for curiosity sake. Some of these modern GDI engines have pulled me back to the 6 month/2x a year oil changes. Unless you're doing all highway miles, or using a very good long drain oil like Amsoil SS/M1/Castrol, I'm not sure it's worth doing the full year OCI. However, one can really only tell by doing a UOA, something I haven't done in years. This will be the first UOA for this car since I've had it.
 

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In the early years I always used the 5w20 in my newer cars for economy and better selection over the then new Ow's. Just slow to change. No issue with either. To me they are interchangeable in FS brews..
 

buster

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I've seen some 0w30 oils drop to the 7+ - 8'ish cSt range when a lot of fuel was present. Most all oils today are formulated with fuel economy in mind, via friction modification, base oils and VII's. I know that many by design do allow for some viscosity loss. It's no secret that using a lower spread, or an oil with little to no VII's will often retain it's viscosity better. Redline is a great example of a brand that formulates that way and it shows in UOA's. It rarely ever drops a viscosity grade (probably the only good thing about that brand). But RL has the luxury of doing so because their market and focus is different.
 
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Originally Posted by buster
Good points from everyone. I guess even with the fuel diluting engines, such as the Honda 1.5T, which seems to be among the worst, they don't fall below the 0w20 grade viscosity limit. Last winter was the first time I ever experienced the oil level going above the top fill hole on the dipstick, and that was due to short trip, cold weather driving. I'm going to buy an oil extractor and sample the M1 5w20 come spring just for curiosity sake. Some of these modern GDI engines have pulled me back to the 6 month/2x a year oil changes. Unless you're doing all highway miles, or using a very good long drain oil like Amsoil SS/M1/Castrol, I'm not sure it's worth doing the full year OCI. However, one can really only tell by doing a UOA, something I haven't done in years. This will be the first UOA for this car since I've had it.
Having seen my Father in-laws short tripped Caravan dilute to ~2% has me changing strategy with his vehicles... I'll just change the oil more often and move to an economy oil. I'm waiting for my UOA to come back on mine and if still shows fuel dilution with highway miles I will move to a shelf-oil and change it at a shorter interval. No sense in running expensive oil if I can't get the time out of it. Yeah the Amsoil guy said that. LOL
 
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buster

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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by buster
Good points from everyone. I guess even with the fuel diluting engines, such as the Honda 1.5T, which seems to be among the worst, they don't fall below the 0w20 grade viscosity limit. Last winter was the first time I ever experienced the oil level going above the top fill hole on the dipstick, and that was due to short trip, cold weather driving. I'm going to buy an oil extractor and sample the M1 5w20 come spring just for curiosity sake. Some of these modern GDI engines have pulled me back to the 6 month/2x a year oil changes. Unless you're doing all highway miles, or using a very good long drain oil like Amsoil SS/M1/Castrol, I'm not sure it's worth doing the full year OCI. However, one can really only tell by doing a UOA, something I haven't done in years. This will be the first UOA for this car since I've had it.
Having seen my Father in-laws short tripped Caravan dilute to ~2% has me changing strategy with his vehicles... I'll just change the oil more often and move to an economy oil. I'm waiting for my UOA to come back on mine and if still shows fuel dilution with highway miles I will move to a shelf-oil and change it at a shorter interval. No sense in running expensive oil if I can't get the time out of it. Yeah the Amsoil guy said that. LOL
Makes sense I'd do the same. The oils built for long drains are great in certain engines under conditions where the engine will run for a long period of time.
 
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I'm thinking SuperTech with him because they love Walmart and frequently go to the states... The Honda CRV does more mileage and longer runs at a time so I think it will be fine on the yearly runs as it has been in the previous UOA's so I'll keep that one on the Signature Series.
 
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Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W20. KV 100 degrees cSt 8.1 KV 40 degrees cSt 46.5 HTHS 2.7 Density 7.1 TBN 9.3 Noack 7.6 VI 147 $23 5 qts at Walmart. Fumoto. I would use this oil with short OCIs. Base oil does appear to be all hydrocracked per density and SDS. How much do you value that high PAO content in M1 EP ?
 

buster

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Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W20. KV 100 degrees cSt 8.1 KV 40 degrees cSt 46.5 HTHS 2.7 Density 7.1 TBN 9.3 Noack 7.6 VI 147 $23 5 qts at Walmart. Fumoto. I would use this oil with short OCIs. Base oil does appear to be all hydrocracked per density and SDS. How much do you value that high PAO content in M1 EP ?
I was considering that too.
 
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Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W20. KV 100 degrees cSt 8.1 KV 40 degrees cSt 46.5 HTHS 2.7 Density 7.1 TBN 9.3 Noack 7.6 VI 147 $23 5 qts at Walmart. Fumoto. I would use this oil with short OCIs. Base oil does appear to be all hydrocracked per density and SDS. How much do you value that high PAO content in M1 EP ?
I was considering that too.
Interesting that Modern Engine has a Noack of 12. This business needs to get straightened out and clarified. What factors are prioritized ? Base oil ? Calcium level ? VI ? Noack ? SAPS level ?
 
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Is my VW 1.4Tsi going to be a diluter? Oh no something else to worry about! And I'm retired now! At least it has a timing belt and not a chain. Oh, NO!
 

buster

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Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W20. KV 100 degrees cSt 8.1 KV 40 degrees cSt 46.5 HTHS 2.7 Density 7.1 TBN 9.3 Noack 7.6 VI 147 $23 5 qts at Walmart. Fumoto. I would use this oil with short OCIs. Base oil does appear to be all hydrocracked per density and SDS. How much do you value that high PAO content in M1 EP ?
I was considering that too.
Interesting that Modern Engine has a Noack of 12. This business needs to get straightened out and clarified. What factors are prioritized ? Base oil ? Calcium level ? VI ? Noack ? SAPS level ?
Yeah I have found that to be odd.
 
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