5w20 vs. 0w20

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Your welcome. And yes you are correct. Which is what makes it an excellent choice. Availability , price and performance puts it ahead of almost every 5w20 Full Synthetic out there. Also an hths rating of 2.7 doesn't hurt.
 
Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: weebl
While I'm not big on using an xW-20 in my application (Toyota 3MZ-FE), even though it is back spec'd


Why not?


It seems, at least for the North American market, that Toyota first released this engine with an xW-30 spec in mind. I believe it was solely spec'd in my owner's manual for 5w30.

5W-20 and later 0W-20 was added years later to Toyota's list of acceptable oils for this engine. Why later on? Why not from the get-go? xW-20 oils I'm sure were CAFE driven, and I'm sure that newer engines have been designed with this in mind. Service departments don't like having to stock multiple viscosities, nor does Toyota want to have multiple viscosities in their warehouse inventories. So, after the fact, they check to see if xW-20 works in the engine. The key here is to check that it works, not that it is ideal.

I used a 5W-20 once when I couldn't get a 5w30, but I'm not making a habit of it.
 
@weebl : Here's a thought ....... progress. Every company I know who manufactures something is always working on a new product. Maybe when Toyota came out with the engine 5w30 weight was probably the thinnest they could go while still maintaining the level of protection/wear that they would like to see out of the tire. But as time passed by 5w20/0w20 weights were introduced in the market. Some more time passed by, the companies improved the quality of their oil to meet the manufacturer's demands.

Toyota then tests they new 5w20/0w20 weight in their older engines and comes to the conclusion that they provide acceptable wear requirements ( might even be better, its anyone's guess ). I do know that car manufacturers do not backspec oil unless they know for sure that it will not adversely affect the engine. That would be like a doctor telling his patient to try a new medicine because its worse than the one he's using already.
 
Originally Posted By: bourne
@weebl : Here's a thought ....... progress. Every company I know who manufactures something is always working on a new product. Maybe when Toyota came out with the engine 5w30 weight was probably the thinnest they could go while still maintaining the level of protection/wear that they would like to see out of the tire. But as time passed by 5w20/0w20 weights were introduced in the market. Some more time passed by, the companies improved the quality of their oil to meet the manufacturer's demands.

Toyota then tests they new 5w20/0w20 weight in their older engines and comes to the conclusion that they provide acceptable wear requirements ( might even be better, its anyone's guess ). I do know that car manufacturers do not backspec oil unless they know for sure that it will not adversely affect the engine. That would be like a doctor telling his patient to try a new medicine because its worse than the one he's using already.


Quite possible. But how do any of us know how Toyota arrived at the xW-20 recommendation? I know an xw-30 will work well in the application. In fact, I've used xW-30 in the majority of applications over the years. If I had a way to know for sure xw-20 protects as well in this application, or, I have operating conditions that warrant the viscosity of xw-20 over xw-30, then I would make the switch. As it is, I am constantly tempted by the Toyota 0W-20 given it's great price and the fact it is a great oil.

As for viscosities in that engine, I'm pretty sure I can use anything from an xw-20 through an xw-50, and it wouldn't explode or anything like that, given that a wide range of tolerances are often inherent in the design. That said, because it is tolerant of something, doesn't mean it is ideal for a given circumstance. If I had to, I could tolerate eating tofu and brussel sprouts, but I don't like them, so I don't.

Now, if I buy a new vehicle that specs xw-20, then that is what I will use for it.
 
Originally Posted By: bourne
Also an hths rating of 2.7 doesn't hurt.

Yes it does hurt if you don't require it and since all vehicles for which a 20wt oil is specified only require a 2.6cP oil a 2.7cP rated oil will be heavier than necessary.
Having said that we are likely splitting hairs. A 2.6cP oil may be 2.645cP rounded down to 2.6cP and the 2.7cP oil actually 2.651cP rounded up to 2.7cP. For all we actually know there is no real difference and that is the virgin spec' of one particular oil batch and I haven't discussed different rates of oil shear in service or the the affects of VI on operational viscosity.

Anyway, back to the original question on 5W-20 vs 0W-20.
For a non severe winter climate like NY it really just comes down to an oil's VI and 0W-20 oils generally have a higher Vi than 5W-20 oils. The higher the VI the lighter the oil will be on start-up.
bourne has pointed out three of the highest VI OTC 5W-20's available; PP (169), Shell (168) and Kendall (166). For typically a 5W-20 has a VI in he 150 range and a 5w20 conventional like Pennzoil conventional has a 150 VI.

Of course these all pale in comparison to the Toyota 0W-20 with a VI of 216 or the even better Sustina 0W-20 at 229. These oil's will be 30-40% lighter at 0C vs the best 5W-20's.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bourne
Also an hths rating of 2.7 doesn't hurt.

Anyway, back to the original question on 5W-20 vs 0W-20.
For a non severe winter climate like NY it really just comes down to an oil's VI and 0W-20 oils generally have a higher Vi than 5W-20 oils. The higher the VI the lighter the oil will be on start-up.
bourne has pointed out three of the highest VI OTC 5W-20's available; PP (169), Shell (168) and Kendall (166). For typically a 5W-20 has a VI in he 150 range and a 5w20 conventional like Pennzoil conventional has a 150 VI.

Of course these all pale in comparison to the Toyota 0W-20 with a VI of 216 or the even better Sustina 0W-20 at 229. These oil's will be 30-40% lighter at 0C vs the best 5W-20's.

Well how would the fully synthetic 5W-20 LE 8521 (Monolec® Tetra-Syn™ Engine Oil) fare in comparison, with a VI of 171...?
Here is the link: 8521
 
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