5W20 in high mileage vehicles

[Snagglefoot]

Its been 25 years now that 5W20 became a common factory fill in vehicles in North America. Any high mileage vehicles that have been using it? Mods: 25 years is a pretty good check point on how its going.

 

[Spring Break '92]

@50yr Street Mech That'd be you, partner!

 

[50yr Street Mech]

Ahhh, yeah. It worked on my 13' CRV K-24 for 615K. But, that was also 3k OCI's . And the K-24 speaks for itself. Great engine. I think the cards were stacked in my favor regarding this vehicle.

 

[JavierH19]

Threads have talked about how engines even the lesser quality ones that were fed thin 20 still lasted a quarter million or more without issue as long as you did one thing even if it was conventional 5w-20. Religiously change the oil frequently.

Iirc it's because tiny abrasive particle accumulation happens which oil filters can't remove nor analysis can't pick up well and do extra damage to things like chain link pins, needle bearings, and rings. Keeping that oil clean seems to help a ton. There's more threads but here's 3.

Thread 'Motor oil choices for optimum timing chain life'

Jul 2, 2021

This is my (probably very incomplete) summary of a bunch of threads here on BITOG regarding optimum practice for longest timing chain life.

Desirable Properties of Oil:
- As thick as possible for hot operating conditions (i.e. xW-40 > xW-30 > xW-20)
- As thin as possible for cold-weather starts (i.e. 0W-x > 5W-x > 10W-x > 20W-x)
- As little viscosity spread as possible (i.e. 5W-20 or 10w30 > 0W-20 or 0w30 or 0W-40 or 5w30 or 20W-50)

These properties are somewhat contradictory - an oil that's both thin enough for cold weather and thick enough for hot weather will have a large viscosity...

• Number_35
• Replies: 56
• Forum: Mechanical/Maintenance Forum

J

Thread 'Would a C3 Oil Protect a Timing Chain Better Than a C2 Oil?'

Mar 2, 2025

Hi all.

As the title says really. For vehicles that are known to be prone to timing chain issues, would it be worth switching from the often recommended C2 oil to a C3 oil? I ask this as the requirement for C2 oil HTHS is only a minimum HTHS of 2.9 whereas the C3 oil minimum is 3.6.

Do you think a change in HTHS would actually benefit preventing timing chain wear?

Cheers!

• jtay2024
• Replies: 42
• Forum: Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Vehicles

• 

C

Thread 'Euro Oils Timing Chain Protection ?'

Jul 31, 2024

Do current Euro oils have the same level of timing chain protection (or better) as do SP / D1 Gen 3 domestic oils call out ?

• ChrisD46
• Replies: 11
• Forum: European and Import Motor Oils

• 

 

[50yr Street Mech]

Yeah, I'm kinda old school. I was taught, in the 70's, correct OCI intervals were 3 months/ 3K....,,,whichever comes first. That was conventional oil though. But, I never changed my ways when the synthetics came out. I never used " high end" synthetics, and still don't. I guess you just can't teach an old dog new tricks. And I still enjoy doing OCI's at my age. Always made time to get it done. That's just " me" ...Everybody does things differently. To each their own, I don't judge.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

Iirc it's because tiny abrasive particle accumulation happens which oil filters can't remove nor analysis can't pick up well and do extra damage to things like chain link pins, needle bearings, and rings. Keeping that oil clean seems to help a ton.

I was actually just thinking about making a thread about this before I saw this post.

I have the same mentality. Despite that filters have more capacity than in prior years, are there are not basically micro-abrasives in used oil that will continue to accumulate with mileage? If so, wouldn't extended OCIs still be less preferable to shorter intervals? People tend to focus on TBN retention, but I feel that doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[JavierH19]

I was actually just thinking about making a thread about this before I saw this post.

I have the same mentality. Despite that filters have more capacity than in prior years, are there are not basically micro-abrasives in used oil that will continue to accumulate with mileage? If so, wouldn't extended OCIs still be less preferable to shorter intervals? People tend to focus on TBN retention, but I feel that doesn't tell the whole story.

That topic is hard to discuss since very special lab equipment is needed to properly measure the entire range of particle sizes with accuracy and the most we get on here is just an oil analysis report but those are bad at properly showing the particle accumulation both in size and quantity with any meaningful accuracy so it'd be hard to discuss. I can't remember exactly but someone posted about how an oil analysis looked great metals wise yet the filter was full of bits of metal. lab report said the engine is wearing great yet the filter is showing a failure happening.

I think I've seen a study paper about that not being the GM oil filter test as that is too different. GM dumped a bunch of large particle sand in the oil and is a different thing in the real world.

 

[wemay]

I believe @tig1 has.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

That topic is hard to discuss since very special lab equipment is needed to properly measure the entire range of particle sizes with accuracy and the most we get on here is just an oil analysis report but those are bad at properly showing the particle accumulation both in size and quantity with any meaningful accuracy so it'd be hard to discuss. I can't remember exactly but someone posted about how an oil analysis looked great metals wise yet the filter was full of bits of metal. lab report said the engine is wearing great yet the filter is showing a failure happening.

I think I've seen a study paper about that not being the GM oil filter test as that is too different. GM dumped a bunch of large particle sand in the oil and is a different thing in the real world.

I think that was @Cujet who had an engine with a wiped cam and lots of large particles but with a used oil analysis that said things were looking great. It's definitely under-discussed here that used oil analysis only account for a certain range of particle size.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I'm thinking more about stories about Uncle Bob who has 600,000 miles on his Ford 3.0 Vulcan engine using nothing but 5W20. This thread also should include 0W20 for the GM folks.

 

[JavierH19]

I'm thinking more about stories about Uncle Bob who has 600,000 miles on his Ford 3.0 Vulcan engine using nothing but 5W20. This thread also should include 0W20 for the GM folks.

I could believe that if it was religiously changed all the time. No way any engine is going that long with the original internals with or without thick oil if it's getting extended drains.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

They even have HM 5w20 and 0w20

But yeah, nothing wrong with using 0w20 or 5w20 in most cars that call for it. There are a few exceptions, but that's not the rule.

 

[addyguy]

One of my favourite ‘experiences’ shared on this topic was member ‘fsskier’…he had a couple of vehicles that called for 5W-30, but he ran them on Mobil 1 0W-20 for 20k OCI’s; and they ran fine for lots of miles. Still find that impressive.

 

[tmorris1]

2006 Ford Focus driven to work daily with 304k. Has had Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20 since about 95k and OCI is usually around 10k. Uses no measurable amount of oil. Pretty much on the full mark of the dipstick when I change the oil. Oil filters have been mostly Fram Ultra with a few Mobil 1s. I have now used Microguard Select for the last 2 OCIs. Still get 30-31 mpg

 

[Auto tech]

2010 Hyundai Santa Fe with a 2.4. 206,000 all with 5w-20. Not extremely high mileage but...

 

[50yr Street Mech]

My mistake. The 13' CRV with the 615K was run on 0W20. Next OCI switching to 5W20 & adding Schaeffer's EP Moly Oil Treatment. The old K-24 is not as quiet as it used to be. Has wear and tear. New timing chain & guides, new CATS, valve adjustment. VCM,,,,all done around 614K. No piston slap, just a wee bit noisier on start up. Probably worn bearings everywhere. Doesn't see much use anymore, I'm retired.....and the CRV is pretty much retired now too. Just use it for doctor appt's and around town for odds and ends. Done with that friggin commuting to work...Yay !

 

[JavierH19]

My mistake. The 13' CRV with the 615K was run on 0W20. Next OCI switching to 5W20 & adding Schaeffer's EP Moly Oil Treatment. The old K-24 is not as quiet as it used to be. Has wear and tear. New timing chain & guides, new CATS, valve adjustment. VCM,,,,all done around 614K. No piston slap, just a wee bit noisier on start up. Probably worn bearings everywhere. Doesn't see much use anymore, I'm retired.....and the CRV is pretty much retired now too. Just use it for doctor appt's and around town for odds and ends. Done with that friggin commuting to work...Yay !

The 2.4 mitsubishi was very noisy with 0w-20 even when new though it never burned oil but it shut up with thicker, now it sneaks up on me. My daughters civic made some noise with 0w-20 but not as much but it also shut up with thicker. I've used Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30, Mobil 1 0w-40, quaker state 5w-40, castrol 0/5w-40. Give one a try next time.

Amazon has castrol 0w-40 on sale for 23.97 https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-03101-0W-40-Advanced-Synthetic/dp/B00JGQLZSU

 

[SC Maintenance]

I was actually just thinking about making a thread about this before I saw this post.

I have the same mentality. Despite that filters have more capacity than in prior years, are there are not basically micro-abrasives in used oil that will continue to accumulate with mileage? If so, wouldn't extended OCIs still be less preferable to shorter intervals? People tend to focus on TBN retention, but I feel that doesn't tell the whole story.

I believe this theory. I have seen many studies in industrial equipment where particles down to a micron can cause quite a bit of wear. I am talking side by side tests - two identical machines, one with either a bypass micron filter or had the lubricant changed more frequently then actual wear measured over time.

Can that data transfer to an auto engine - hard to say I suppose. However there is no debate that the best way to clean out the particles is to dump the oil in a drain pan and put new stuff in.

 

[50yr Street Mech]

Javier, I have an enormous supply of 0W20 & 5W30 in 5 qt jugs that I caught on sale and stashed away. All are quality synthetic oils. Castrol / Pennzoil / Valvoline / Quaker State. The 5W30 goes in my 03' Toyota. The 0W20 goes in the Honda as per manual. Will take years to deplete the stash. Cars don't drive far. Will it be okay if I just add the Schaeffer's EP Moly to the 0W20 to thicken it up a bit ??? That was my intention. Have 6 bottles of Schaeffer's on my shelf to be strictly used for the Honda K-24. It is pretty thick stuff, not as thick as STP blue bottle. I think the STP is too thick for the K-24. Please reply...Thanks....

 

[SimpleSyrup]

Its been 25 years now that 5W20 became a common factory fill in vehicles in North America. Any high mileage vehicles that have been using it? Mods: 25 years is a pretty good check point on how its going.

I've been running 0w20 and 5w20 since 2007 in a Honda Civic now with over 200,000 miles. Zero issues. Original owner of the car. I've personally every oil change on it except three, which I had done at a shop. Consumes literally zero oil. Has never consumed oil. I just get whatever synthetic is between $15 and $20 a jug. I've never really used the OEM filters, I mostly used Purolator's, but when they turned crappy and cheap a couple years ago I switched over to the Fram tough guard or ultra.