5w/30 in Ford 3.0 Duratec

[Danh]

The timing chain cover in my 2005 Ford Escape V6 with 70k has developed a small leak; not much volume at all, but enough to make things a bit messy as the oil eventually hits one of the pulleys and sprays around. Resealing the cover is a truly big and expensive (!) deal.

High-mileage oils don't seem the be the answer as RTV is used to seal the timing chain cover and I think RTV is immune to the charms of seal swellers.

The manufacturer specs 5w20 and has so since 2001 or so. As the leak became worse when I switched to thinner Ultra from Mobil 1 and it seems to leak only when hot, I'm wondering if maybe going to a 5w30 would help. Anyone running 5w30 in this engine? Think this is worth a try?

Thanks.

 

[skyship]

If 5w30 is approved for your engine type it should reduce the leak rate, in comparison with 5/20.

 

[bigjl]

I believe this engine was specced for 5w30 in the UK, an A1B1 or A5/B5.

Most Ford engines that are also used in Europe will be run on this spec, I think the only ones that don't are the Focus RS and the little KA city car.

That goes for diesel or petrol.

There may be political reasons for running a 5w20 or 0w20 in North America.

I would go for Castrol myself but there is a cheaper Chevron Supreme that is A5/B5 that you can get in 20 litre barrels in Costco, which may work out cheaper.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I believe the 3.0 Duratec in the Escapes (throughout the run) were the same as the 3.0 Duratec in the tauruses. They were spec'd for 5w30 in the early tauruses.

You should be okay with 5s-30. I don't think it'll help your leak too much, though.

 

[JOD]

These engines aren't picky on oil. You can use a 30W oil with no problem, but I think it's doubtful that it'll help the leak. You could always try to re-torque the bolts on the cover--you should be able to access most of them.

Can they do that repair in-car, or do they have to pull the engine. It looks as though it would be really, really tight to get it out, at least in my car.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: JOD
These engines aren't picky on oil. You can use a 30W oil with no problem, but I think it's doubtful that it'll help the leak. You could always try to re-torque the bolts on the cover--you should be able to access most of them.

Can they do that repair in-car, or do they have to pull the engine. It looks as though it would be really, really tight to get it out, at least in my car.


I don't expect 5w30 will help much either, but thought it was worth a try. Re-torqueing the bolts doesn't seem like a good idea because of the RTV sealant; evidently doing this can make things worse.

They can do the repair in-car, but as you note, clearances are tight so it requires pretty substantial disassembly. Repair estimate is $1,700 or about 25% of the car's value, so I'm inclined to live with it unless it gets lots worse. Nice design job, Ford.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Danh

I don't expect 5w30 will help much either, but thought it was worth a try. Re-torqueing the bolts doesn't seem like a good idea because of the RTV sealant; evidently doing this can make things worse.


Honestly, it shouldn't. RTV sets as a "permanent" gasket. It's elasticity won't change when you loosed the bolt. I get the main thing I wonder is if a bolt became loose? Re-torquing the bolts would at least eliminate that possibility.

Originally Posted By: Danh
They can do the repair in-car, but as you note, clearances are tight so it requires pretty substantial disassembly. Repair estimate is $1,700 or about 25% of the car's value, so I'm inclined to live with it unless it gets lots worse. Nice design job, Ford.


ouch! I haven't read much about this, so hopefully it's not a common occurrence. I have a little more room in my Freestyle's engine bay, but not much... I think at a minimum the AC, power steering pump and some other stuff would have to come out...so I'm not surprised this is an expensive repair. Sadly, leaks don't get better with time. I didn't realize that the High Mileage oil seal swell agents didn't work on RTV gaskets. That's a bummer.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Danh

I don't expect 5w30 will help much either, but thought it was worth a try. Re-torqueing the bolts doesn't seem like a good idea because of the RTV sealant; evidently doing this can make things worse.


Honestly, it shouldn't. RTV sets as a "permanent" gasket. It's elasticity won't change when you loosed the bolt. I get the main thing I wonder is if a bolt became loose? Re-torquing the bolts would at least eliminate that possibility.

Originally Posted By: Danh
They can do the repair in-car, but as you note, clearances are tight so it requires pretty substantial disassembly. Repair estimate is $1,700 or about 25% of the car's value, so I'm inclined to live with it unless it gets lots worse. Nice design job, Ford.


ouch! I haven't read much about this, so hopefully it's not a common occurrence. I have a little more room in my Freestyle's engine bay, but not much... I think at a minimum the AC, power steering pump and some other stuff would have to come out...so I'm not surprised this is an expensive repair. Sadly, leaks don't get better with time. I didn't realize that the High Mileage oil seal swell agents didn't work on RTV gaskets. That's a bummer.


It's difficult to get a definitive answer on the high-mileage/RTV sealant issue, but seems to be the consensus. I asked Valvoline; they came back with a comment that MaxLife was "compatible" with RTV, but don't use their full synthetic (?), so not very helpful. Mobil hasn't responded.

 

[Danh]

As a follow-up, I called Pennzoil Tech Support. The answer seems to be that RTV sealants come in silicone and acrylic varieties. Seal swellers may work on acrylic but not on silicone. Unfortunately, I think automotive RTV is of the silicone variety, so high-mileage oils aren't a solution.

Kudos to Pennzoil. Not only do they have a tech support phone line, but it's actually adequately manned: my wait time was less than 30 seconds.

 

[bigjl]

There doesn't seem to be much on this issue in the UK. Perhaps this is due to UK cars only being specced for 5w30 A5/B5? Though I doubt it.

The Police used to use this engine in their Mondeo Traffic Cars in Essex, they had them for years and must have put 200k on them.

But knowing the way Police and Ambulance fitters deal with oil leaks the problem could be hidden as they would just strip it down if they had the manpower to turn it round quick or more likely just change the engine.

I take it this engine is fitted in lots of vehicles in the US?

It is fairly rare in the UK, though the Police had a more powerful version ST220, a lot had around 200 bhp in more executive spec vehicles.

Unless it is causing big issues I would be tempted to keep running it with 5w30, there is a small chance that the thicker oil when up to temperature will reduce the oil leak a little bit surely?

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: Danh
Re-torqueing the bolts doesn't seem like a good idea because of the RTV sealant; evidently doing this can make things worse.

They can do the repair in-car, but as you note, clearances are tight so it requires pretty substantial disassembly. Repair estimate is $1,700 or about 25% of the car's value, so I'm inclined to live with it unless it gets lots worse. Nice design job, Ford.


Give it a snug, it won't make it worse. $1700 for this job is a rip off.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
There doesn't seem to be much on this issue in the UK. Perhaps this is due to UK cars only being specced for 5w30 A5/B5? Though I doubt it.



This engine is really common here, and it's a pretty rare issue--and oil viscosity doesn't have much to do with whether or not a seal leaks (if anything, in theory the higher pressure from higher-viscosity oils may increase some pressure points in the engine, but I doubt that's much of an issue at the timing cover). Of course, "uncommon" doesn't mean much if it happens to you--so that doesn't really help the original poster at all! On the car-specific forum for my car, there' never been a reported instance of a leak at the timing cover. It sounds like bad luck.

I don't see the harm in trying a High Mileage 5w30 oil and seeing what happens.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: bigjl
There doesn't seem to be much on this issue in the UK. Perhaps this is due to UK cars only being specced for 5w30 A5/B5? Though I doubt it.



This engine is really common here, and it's a pretty rare issue--and oil viscosity doesn't have much to do with whether or not a seal leaks (if anything, in theory the higher pressure from higher-viscosity oils may increase some pressure points in the engine, but I doubt that's much of an issue at the timing cover). Of course, "uncommon" doesn't mean much if it happens to you--so that doesn't really help the original poster at all! On the car-specific forum for my car, there' never been a reported instance of a leak at the timing cover. It sounds like bad luck.

I don't see the harm in trying a High Mileage 5w30 oil and seeing what happens.


As explained to me this not at all common, but not unheard-of either, so just bad luck I guess. It's been a terrific car otherwise, so just one of those thing$. I'd consider snugging the bolts down, but disassembly is required even for that.

 

[Danno]

I have the Ford technician DVD for the Escape 3.0. Just looked at the process to get to the front cover. It is pretty involved.
It talks about installing 3 gaskets during reassembly of the front cover with silicone 6mm dots where there are different mating surfaces. Your leak may be from the gaskets and you might be able to use the High Mileage oil and see if it works.

 

[bigjl]

Putting in a HM mileage oil with seal swellers in 5w30 and the correct approvals won't make it worse so why not just use different oil.

It may work.