46 Years Old Boeing 727 in Africa- Nice watch if you are inside this weekend because of cold

GON

GON

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Cool video, although I didn't care for the unnecessary background music played at times. The video is about 25 minutes, cold weather and housebound this weekend------- grab a cup of coffee, sit back, and enjoy.

Great to see a aircraft that requires a navigator- is there even a navigator training program still operating? Would love to interview the pilots to find out why they chose to continue to fly the 727 rather than move onto more updated airframes that likely offer less hassles, and quite likely more job opportunities. Both front seaters appear to be captains.

 
mrsilv04 said:
It's nice enough/warm enough here that I'd be out on the motorcycle today and tomorrow.... except that the roads are white with salt. :(
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Some of you hardcore bikers will ride in temperatures that others wouldn't go outside to get the mail.

When I was a teenage, a friend's dad was an engineer at International Harvester/ Navistar. This guy was super smart, and a big motorsports enthusiast. He would ride his bike to work in the most extreme conditions. After decades of driving a bike in every crazy weather condition, he was only in one accident; he was rear ended at a stop light. He claimed the vehicle that him suffered more damage that his full-size Yamaha touring bike.
 
I remember in probably the very late 90's getting on to a well worn airplane and my senior co-worker commenting to the affect its a dirty worn out 727 - yuck, or something to that affect. It was pretty worn. And had a peculiar smell. I was young and just happy to be going somewhere.
 
fdcg27 said:
The third guy is a flight engineer.
The 727 was designed in an era when this throwback to the piston days was still considered necessary.
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Having sometimes- thanks for posting the correct information.
 
fdcg27 said:
The third guy is a flight engineer.
The 727 was designed in an era when this throwback to the piston days was still considered necessary.
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It wasn’t “considered” necessary, the Flight engineer position was absolutely essential to the safe operation of the aircraft.

Everything that you take for granted today was done manually back then: pressurization, fuel transfer, electrical synchronization of generator outputs and a few dozen other operations, including tracking fuel, flow and fuel burn, reading each individual fuel gauge to ensure the aircraft stayed within center of gravity limits.

All done manually.

There were over 900 switches in the 747 cockpit. 600 of them on the Flight engineers panel. When the 747-400 came out, and replaced the flight engineer with computers, and automated systems, the number of switches went down to about 270. But until those computer controlled systems were developed, the Flight engineer performed a bunch of essential functions.

The flight engineer in Concord was even more busy, manually calculating both center of gravity, and acceptable center of gravity based on mach number. Transferring fuel between fore and aft tanks to keep the aircraft within CG limits. It was all done manually.

So the Flight engineer wasn’t “considered” necessary, or a throwback, they were absolutely essential for managing the aircraft systems before such things could be done automatically.
 
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Astro14 said:
It wasn’t “considered” necessary, the Flight engineer position was absolutely essential to the safe operation of the aircraft.

Everything that you take for granted today was done manually back then: pressurization, fuel transfer, electrical synchronization of generator outputs and a few dozen other operations, including tracking fuel, flow and fuel burn, reading each individual fuel gauge to ensure the aircraft stayed within center of gravity limits.

All done manually.

There were over 900 switches in the 747 cockpit. 600 of them on the Flight engineers panel. When the 747-400 came out, and replaced the flight engineer with computers, and automated systems, the number of switches went down to about 270. But until those computer controlled systems were developed, the Flight engineer performed a bunch of essential functions.

The flight engineer in Concord was even more busy, manually calculating both center of gravity, and acceptable center of gravity based on mach number. Transferring fuel between fore and aft tanks to keep the aircraft within CG limits. It was all done manually.

So the Flight engineer wasn’t “considered” necessary, or a throwback, they were absolutely essential for managing the aircraft systems before such things could be done automatically.
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What’s the DC10 story? - 3rd seat - but after upgrades, no FE?
I saw (pre 9/11) the pilots invite James A Baker III to fly there - they even strapped him tight for landing …
 
I understand that the FE did manage the aircraft's systems.
The Sud Caravelle was designed a few years before the 727 and could operate with a cockpit crew of two. My thinking was that turbojets required so much less attention in use that the flight engineer became less essential in operating the aircraft.
Just a few years later, the DC-9 entered service with a crew of two followed a few years later by the 737 with the same.
 
I like the 727. It was the first plan I ever rode on when I was a kid . My dad took my sister and I to Disney land for the day, the flight was from San Francisco to I don't remember which airport in the Los Angeles area. I remember using the back stars. That last time I remember being on a 727 was a flight from San Francisco to Pittsburg Pa. I like air planes.
 
4WD said:
What’s the DC10 story? - 3rd seat - but after upgrades, no FE?
I saw (pre 9/11) the pilots invite James A Baker III to fly there - they even strapped him tight for landing …
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The DC10 was a 3 seater and had a Flight engineer, the MD11 Had more advanced systems and FADEC engines and was a 2 seater.
After FedEx acquired DC10's they decided to upgrade the systems and cockpit eliminating the FE and making it a 2 seater they designated it the MD10.
 
Expendable said:
The DC10 was a 3 seater and had a Flight engineer, the MD11 Had more advanced systems and FADEC engines and was a 2 seater.
After FedEx acquired DC10's they decided to upgrade the systems and cockpit eliminating the FE and making it a 2 seater they designated it the MD10.
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Baker was no flight engineer - seat was available …
Upgraded already ?
Yes, I know MD11 had only two - we used to travel with the flight deck open to view … (KLM had many) …
 
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